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[Music]

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[Laughter]

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what's up everybody happy Wednesday at 1

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30. Jay and I are your hosts today for a

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spectacular afternoon Extravaganza with

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Dr avilo from Project gillwell

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I'm doing great I am extraordinarily

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excited about our day today it's gonna

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be awesome we've got a fantastic double

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header got Dr Avi Loeb and then later

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this evening we're gonna come back with

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uh Dr Michael Masters yeah it's quite a

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day we have two doctors here today so

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and I didn't even make an appointment so

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that's right yeah and the answer to Is

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there a doctor in the house today is

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absolutely yes

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um thanks to everybody in the chat we

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got some great people here by the way uh

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disclosures team Robert Andres Jose

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um Lara

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water lily everybody if I left you out I

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do appreciate you being here please give

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some comments hit the like button

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subscribe if you haven't that's always

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helpful

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can I write into it yeah but you have a

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pretty good introduction don't you

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had a pretty I've got a pretty good

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introduction here all right let's share

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it

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all right Dr Avi Loeb is the Frank B

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Bear Junior professor of science at

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Harvard University and a best-selling

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author who received a PhD in physics

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from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem

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in Israel at age 24 led the first

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International project supported by the

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Strategic Defense Initiative and was

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subsequently a long-term member of The

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Institute for advanced study at

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Princeton from 1988 to 1993. Dr Loeb has

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written eight books including most

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recently extraterrestrial and nearly a

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thousand papers on a wide range of

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topics including black holes the first

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Stars the search for extraterrestrial

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life and the future of the universe Dr

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Loeb is the director of The Institute

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for Theory and computation within the

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Harvard Smithsonian Center for

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astrophysics and also serves as the head

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of the Galileo project

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he had been

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the longest serving chair of Harvard's

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Department of astronomy from 2011 to

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2020 and the founding director of

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Harvard's black hole initiative he's an

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elected fellow of the American Academy

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of Arts and Sciences the American

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physical society and the International

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Academy of astronautics Dr Logue it's

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great to have you here

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on the show today

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it's a great pleasure to join you and we

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could have saved a lot of time if you

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and so I mean I I really appreciate

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reading um an extraterrestrial about

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your life on the farm growing up it was

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absolutely fantastic however I think

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that would be just a little bit over

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simplistic with regard to the work that

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you've done since leaving the farm as a

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child I don't see it that way I learned

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two things from my days in the farm one

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is nature is more important than people

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we just need to pay attention to Nature

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and the evidence that it gives us and

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sort of like being a student learning

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from nature and the second thing that I

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learned on the farm is that you know you

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should think independently and not

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necessarily listen to what is being said

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on social media I don't care uh how many

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likes I get on social media I don't have

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any footprint on social media I just

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want to figure out the reality that we

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live in and if you pay too much

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attention to people you know what I tell

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the my students is that it's the

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situation is similar to seashells on the

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beach you know each of them is born with

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a unique color but then after a while

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they rub against each other as a result

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of waves sweeping them and the seashells

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break up lose their color and become

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indistinguishable grains of sand and you

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don't want to become an

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indistinguishable grain of sand and of

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course social media provides a lot of

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rubbing of people against each other and

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that's not necessarily good for you if

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you want to maintain your unique color

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well put I mean we just started this and

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already you've tackled social media and

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Let's Do It um you know I wanted to

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bring you on your your year into project

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Galileo and boy has it been quite a feat

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you know everything that you've been

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doing in the in you know to prepare and

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get things proper

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um bringing people in getting all the

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recommendations talking to the best

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people that you could

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um so where are you at a year into the

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project uh what are you know some

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accomplishments that that you have under

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your belt now and what do you look to

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accomplish going forward so in fact two

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weeks ago we had the the conference of

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the Galileo project that that summarizes

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the accomplishments of the first year

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and started planning ahead for the next

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year and

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um so the Galileo project is funded by

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private donations these were very

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wealthy individuals that came to the

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porch of my home they were inspired by

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my book extraterrestrial and decided to

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give me a few million dollars to my

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research fund and that's how we

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established the project and it's a

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collaboration of many institutions many

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people from different disciplines and

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different places around the world and

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we have three tracks of the Galileo

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project by now

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initially it was inspired by the

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discovery of omuamua this

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Interstellar object that was found in

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2017 by telescope in Hawaii and the name

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means a scout in the Hawaiian language

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and it didn't show the features of a

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rock from the solar system didn't look

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like an asteroid or a comet and I talked

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about it in my book The anomalies that

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this object exhibited that raised the

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possibility that might be artificial in

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origin and we would like within the

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Galileo project

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to find the next of and rendezvous with

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it it's sort of like dating

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and we have a dating app which is the

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Vera Rubin Observatory it will start

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operation in a year most of the time we

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because the date costs more than a

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billion dollars in space so we have to

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be very selective it's not like going to

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dinner it's an expensive date it's a

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very expensive day and you have to be

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careful about who you choose uh and so

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but we are designing a space mission

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that will bring a camera close to the

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next

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and get more data on it so because they

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say a picture is worth a thousand words

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in my case it's worth 66 000 words the

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number of words in my book

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extraterrestrial and the second track of

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the Galileo project is indeed related to

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another Interstellar object it was

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discovered almost four years before

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and by the US government it was put in a

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catalog of meteors that's an object that

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the Earth collided with much smaller

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than um was the size of a football field

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this one is is the size of a watermelon

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the many more of this but the Earth is

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like a fishing net it as it moves around

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the Sun it collided with this object and

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we discovered it in a catalog compiled

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by the US government with my student and

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we found it to be moving so fast that it

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must be Unbound to the sun it it came

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from outside the solar system and when

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we submitted a paper about it in March

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2019 more than three years ago uh it the

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paper was declined from publication

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because the reviewer said this is U.S

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government data we don't know the

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uncertainties we don't have access to

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this data therefore we don't trust the

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US government and the paper should not

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be published uh so I tried to reach out

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to people behind the National Security

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Fence and

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um just a few months ago there was a

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letter released by the Department of

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Defense the U.S space command to NASA

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confirming that indeed that this object

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at the 99.99 confidence came from

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outside the solar system as argued in

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our paper with my student Amir siraj and

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so now our paper is being reviewed for

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publication and moreover we are

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designing an expedition to the location

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of the meteor impact which was a hundred

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miles off the coast of Papua New Guinea

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and then the meteor exploded about the

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18.7 kilometers above the ocean surface

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and then the government together with

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the letter that I mentioned they also

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released the light curve from the

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fireball that the the explosion

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generated and uh from that we inferred

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that it was made of a very tough

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material tougher than iron in fact it

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was tougher than 273 all the objects in

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the government catalog were of material

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strength that is at least a factor of

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two smaller than this object so it's

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clearly an outlier in terms of its

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material strength and also it was moving

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so fast outside the solar system faster

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than 95 percent of all the stars in the

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vicinity of the sun wow so here you have

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an object the first in the cellar meteor

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before romuamua uh was discovered by

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almost four years and it's an outlier it

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moved there much faster than almost all

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stars near the sun and it was tougher

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than all the objects in the meteor

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catalog uh so what was it that raises

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the possibility that maybe it's a

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spacecraft that was propelled to a high

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speed and had the very tough composition

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because it was artificial in origin and

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we are planning an expedition that will

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scoop the ocean floor for the fragments

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from this explosion and uh we can then

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analyze their composition and in Fair

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whether the object was an iron meteorite

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a natural rock or

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some piece of equipment then of course

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my wish is that there will be a chunk of

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material with some buttons on it so that

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I can press button I know you've been

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seeing you've been wanting to press

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buttons for a while well I love to press

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buttons since I was a child but that is

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the second track and finally a a very

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important track of the Galileo project

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has just do with the objects that were

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discussed by the report from the

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Director of National Intelligence to the

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U.S Congress a year ago that actually

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triggered the Galileo project a month

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later we announced it and I approached

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NASA at the time because Bill Nelson

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said that

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this is a subject that scientists should

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get engaged with so I approached NASA

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submitted a white paper to Thomas who is

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responsible for all signs at Nasa I

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never heard back and a month later I

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decided since I'm not hearing back to

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establish the Galileo project and we're

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actually

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doing what I proposed in this white

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letter we are putting together a suite

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of instruments that monitor the sky 24 7

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the entire sky in the infrared visible

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light audio radio and then analyzing the

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data with artificial intelligence

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software floor and the suite of

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instruments is already

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00:12:35,509 --> 00:12:31,040
available

278
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we looked at it celebrated it at the

279
00:12:39,530 --> 00:12:37,800
conference we had two weeks ago and the

280
00:12:42,230 --> 00:12:39,540
next step in the coming months would be

281
00:12:46,069 --> 00:12:42,240
to test it to make sure that it works

282
00:12:48,410 --> 00:12:46,079
and then hopefully in 2023 deployed in a

283
00:12:49,629 --> 00:12:48,420
desirable location and start collecting

284
00:12:53,629 --> 00:12:49,639
data

285
00:12:56,350 --> 00:12:53,639
that will be unique high quality better

286
00:13:01,310 --> 00:12:56,360
than the government released obviously

287
00:13:03,889 --> 00:13:01,320
and will allow us to share it openly and

288
00:13:05,569 --> 00:13:03,899
publish papers in scientific journals

289
00:13:08,449 --> 00:13:05,579
that are peer-reviewed on this subject

290
00:13:10,190 --> 00:13:08,459
so hopefully within a year that would be

291
00:13:12,889 --> 00:13:10,200
the case

292
00:13:15,650 --> 00:13:12,899
you know that that's so wonderful you

293
00:13:18,230 --> 00:13:15,660
know and in a short informational video

294
00:13:20,930 --> 00:13:18,240
about the conference that was posted on

295
00:13:23,030 --> 00:13:20,940
uh the Galileo project website we saw

296
00:13:25,730 --> 00:13:23,040
folks gathering on the roof of the

297
00:13:27,230 --> 00:13:25,740
Harvard College Observatory with lots of

298
00:13:29,750 --> 00:13:27,240
that detection gear that you're talking

299
00:13:32,930 --> 00:13:29,760
about freshly installed

300
00:13:35,090 --> 00:13:32,940
um looking for Sky anomalies and kind of

301
00:13:37,670 --> 00:13:35,100
uh you know for people to kind of

302
00:13:39,949 --> 00:13:37,680
examine now this seems like both a very

303
00:13:42,829 --> 00:13:39,959
practical development to see happening

304
00:13:44,629 --> 00:13:42,839
at Harvard uh and looking at methods and

305
00:13:48,290 --> 00:13:44,639
strategies that can be deployed

306
00:13:51,050 --> 00:13:48,300
elsewhere and it also has deep symbolic

307
00:13:53,509 --> 00:13:51,060
resonance uh seeing the roof of such a

308
00:13:56,509 --> 00:13:53,519
prominent Observatory being used to look

309
00:13:58,790 --> 00:13:56,519
for Aerospace phenomena that may be much

310
00:14:00,949 --> 00:13:58,800
closer than astronomers like yourself

311
00:14:03,889 --> 00:14:00,959
were trained to look for decades ago

312
00:14:05,990 --> 00:14:03,899
right how did how did it feel for you

313
00:14:08,930 --> 00:14:06,000
seeing this new development on top of

314
00:14:11,650 --> 00:14:08,940
Harvard College Observatory well the

315
00:14:13,670 --> 00:14:11,660
first thing is when I was proposing to

316
00:14:16,069 --> 00:14:13,680
initiate this project

317
00:14:19,310 --> 00:14:16,079
I was asked by the administration at

318
00:14:22,730 --> 00:14:19,320
Harvard is this part of your day job

319
00:14:24,590 --> 00:14:22,740
and as an astronomer and I said I

320
00:14:29,870 --> 00:14:24,600
thought about it and said yes because in

321
00:14:31,090 --> 00:14:29,880
astronomy we look into space and there

322
00:14:34,250 --> 00:14:31,100
is no

323
00:14:35,990 --> 00:14:34,260
minimum distance for the objects of

324
00:14:40,189 --> 00:14:36,000
Interest we look at the sun we look at

325
00:14:41,990 --> 00:14:40,199
asteroids we look at meteors and in this

326
00:14:43,610 --> 00:14:42,000
case we are searching for objects that

327
00:14:46,189 --> 00:14:43,620
came from outside the solar system so

328
00:14:47,930 --> 00:14:46,199
it's definitely astronomy it's just a

329
00:14:50,569 --> 00:14:47,940
different type of astronomy and such

330
00:14:52,550 --> 00:14:50,579
observatories do not exist astronomers

331
00:14:55,189 --> 00:14:52,560
look at the narrow field of view usually

332
00:14:57,290 --> 00:14:55,199
and if a bird flies above the telescope

333
00:15:00,110 --> 00:14:57,300
they ignore it so we are doing something

334
00:15:01,790 --> 00:15:00,120
new and we are collecting data of higher

335
00:15:03,769 --> 00:15:01,800
quality than what was released by the

336
00:15:05,870 --> 00:15:03,779
government but guess what the government

337
00:15:08,170 --> 00:15:05,880
cares about it they discuss it in

338
00:15:11,750 --> 00:15:08,180
Congress they establish the new office

339
00:15:15,290 --> 00:15:11,760
uh in government and NASA started the

340
00:15:17,990 --> 00:15:15,300
study a year after I sent my white paper

341
00:15:20,569 --> 00:15:18,000
so now they're looking into whether they

342
00:15:23,810 --> 00:15:20,579
should fund such research

343
00:15:27,050 --> 00:15:23,820
um and so the Galileo project to in my

344
00:15:28,850 --> 00:15:27,060
um uh view is is just a matter of Common

345
00:15:30,650 --> 00:15:28,860
Sense there is a subject that the

346
00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:30,660
government cares about the public cares

347
00:15:37,009 --> 00:15:33,360
about obviously scientists Can Shed

348
00:15:38,629 --> 00:15:37,019
light and and you know use evidence to

349
00:15:41,090 --> 00:15:38,639
guide us as to the nature of these

350
00:15:45,650 --> 00:15:41,100
objects so uh if you look at the

351
00:15:49,189 --> 00:15:45,660
astronomy you know in 1933 uh Fritz Wiki

352
00:15:51,410 --> 00:15:49,199
and astronomer from Caltech uh realized

353
00:15:55,009 --> 00:15:51,420
that most of the matter in clusters of

354
00:15:57,650 --> 00:15:55,019
galaxies or in the universe is of a form

355
00:16:01,069 --> 00:15:57,660
that is not luminous that you can't see

356
00:16:03,650 --> 00:16:01,079
he called it dark matter and for 40

357
00:16:07,749 --> 00:16:03,660
years mainstream astronomers resisted

358
00:16:10,249 --> 00:16:07,759
that they said we know the matter that

359
00:16:13,009 --> 00:16:10,259
objects in the solar system are made of

360
00:16:14,749 --> 00:16:13,019
there is nothing else but guess what

361
00:16:17,269 --> 00:16:14,759
eighty percent of the stuff in the

362
00:16:18,829 --> 00:16:17,279
universe we now know and if you ask any

363
00:16:21,290 --> 00:16:18,839
practicing astronomy they will tell you

364
00:16:23,569 --> 00:16:21,300
of course 80 percent is dark matter

365
00:16:27,590 --> 00:16:23,579
although we still don't know what it is

366
00:16:28,730 --> 00:16:27,600
but the lesson the moral of this is we

367
00:16:32,530 --> 00:16:28,740
don't find in the solar system

368
00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:32,540
everything that is out there in fact

369
00:16:36,650 --> 00:16:34,560
four-fifths of the matter in the

370
00:16:38,569 --> 00:16:36,660
universe is of a form that we don't find

371
00:16:41,569 --> 00:16:38,579
in the solar system we don't see it we

372
00:16:43,550 --> 00:16:41,579
don't know what it is and so I say if

373
00:16:45,170 --> 00:16:43,560
now you look at Interstellar objects

374
00:16:47,389 --> 00:16:45,180
that came from outside the solar system

375
00:16:49,629 --> 00:16:47,399
it's just like looking at objects that

376
00:16:52,970 --> 00:16:49,639
came from the street into your backyard

377
00:16:56,150 --> 00:16:52,980
and if you are used to finding rocks in

378
00:17:00,470 --> 00:16:56,160
your backyard and suddenly you see a

379
00:17:03,650 --> 00:17:00,480
beach ball or a soccer ball or you know

380
00:17:06,049 --> 00:17:03,660
a baseball in your backyard

381
00:17:08,689 --> 00:17:06,059
you know that you have neighbors

382
00:17:10,909 --> 00:17:08,699
so you can't just assume that everything

383
00:17:13,909 --> 00:17:10,919
that you will find in your backyard that

384
00:17:16,730 --> 00:17:13,919
came from outside must be a rock

385
00:17:20,210 --> 00:17:16,740
and that was the attitude of mainstream

386
00:17:23,569 --> 00:17:20,220
astronomers when they realized that has

387
00:17:25,490 --> 00:17:23,579
all these anomalies they said yes it's a

388
00:17:28,189 --> 00:17:25,500
rock but of a type that we've never seen

389
00:17:29,690 --> 00:17:28,199
before just like arguing a beach ball is

390
00:17:32,510 --> 00:17:29,700
a rock of a type that we've never seen

391
00:17:34,970 --> 00:17:32,520
before and then you know that's not a

392
00:17:38,150 --> 00:17:34,980
good approach if you are sufficiently

393
00:17:41,330 --> 00:17:38,160
humbled to learn from evidence for me

394
00:17:43,549 --> 00:17:41,340
the lesson is it's intriguing enough to

395
00:17:46,010 --> 00:17:43,559
initiate a new research program and to

396
00:17:48,049 --> 00:17:46,020
me it sounds like Common Sense we launch

397
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:48,059
things out of the solar system so why

398
00:17:53,690 --> 00:17:51,120
should we dismiss the possibility the

399
00:17:55,610 --> 00:17:53,700
things entering the solar system are of

400
00:17:57,650 --> 00:17:55,620
artificial origin we should not dismiss

401
00:17:59,630 --> 00:17:57,660
it if we see something unusual let's get

402
00:18:01,970 --> 00:17:59,640
to the bottom of it rather than say oh

403
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:01,980
we know that it's a rock of a type that

404
00:18:05,690 --> 00:18:03,840
we've never seen before like a Dust

405
00:18:07,430 --> 00:18:05,700
Bunny which is not actually a rock it's

406
00:18:11,090 --> 00:18:07,440
a cloud of daspberry that was the one

407
00:18:14,029 --> 00:18:11,100
suggestion or a hydrogenized bird but

408
00:18:16,370 --> 00:18:14,039
then when that had issues then they said

409
00:18:18,650 --> 00:18:16,380
oh well maybe it's a nitrogen Iceberg

410
00:18:20,450 --> 00:18:18,660
and everyone says yes it is a nitrogen

411
00:18:22,970 --> 00:18:20,460
Iceberg Case Closed everything else is

412
00:18:25,010 --> 00:18:22,980
speckled now we've never seen a nice a

413
00:18:27,710 --> 00:18:25,020
nitrogen Iceberg nor a hydrogen Iceberg

414
00:18:29,810 --> 00:18:27,720
nor a Dust Bunny yet these are the

415
00:18:32,990 --> 00:18:29,820
mainstream proposals for the nature for

416
00:18:34,789 --> 00:18:33,000
muamua and I say we need more evidence

417
00:18:36,590 --> 00:18:34,799
you can't just invent things that we've

418
00:18:38,210 --> 00:18:36,600
never you know just like in the example

419
00:18:40,789 --> 00:18:38,220
of the beach where you would say here is

420
00:18:42,529 --> 00:18:40,799
a round rock even though it's much

421
00:18:45,289 --> 00:18:42,539
lighter than a rock you know just like

422
00:18:47,210 --> 00:18:45,299
the Dust Bunny idea maybe it's a rock

423
00:18:48,250 --> 00:18:47,220
made of dust particles that is very

424
00:18:53,450 --> 00:18:48,260
Loosely

425
00:18:56,029 --> 00:18:53,460
very rarefied I mean you can come with

426
00:18:57,590 --> 00:18:56,039
all kinds of ideas but it's also

427
00:18:59,390 --> 00:18:57,600
possible that it came from another

428
00:19:02,870 --> 00:18:59,400
civilization because we are launching

429
00:19:08,150 --> 00:19:05,210
that's beautiful and I love your take on

430
00:19:09,590 --> 00:19:08,160
this each and every time

431
00:19:11,210 --> 00:19:09,600
um and you can apply it to so many

432
00:19:13,430 --> 00:19:11,220
different things if you don't recognize

433
00:19:16,130 --> 00:19:13,440
something if you don't know what it is

434
00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:16,140
um that that doesn't mean you know that

435
00:19:20,450 --> 00:19:18,960
you have to come up with a prosaic

436
00:19:23,570 --> 00:19:20,460
answer for instance just so you're

437
00:19:27,289 --> 00:19:23,580
comfortable so your ego can deal with it

438
00:19:29,510 --> 00:19:27,299
um do you continue to run into issues

439
00:19:31,370 --> 00:19:29,520
with with different scientists who tell

440
00:19:33,169 --> 00:19:31,380
you you're wasting your time and all

441
00:19:35,090 --> 00:19:33,179
that and and if so what propels you to

442
00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:35,100
move past that and keep going

443
00:19:42,350 --> 00:19:38,880
well um it's always a mixed bag in the

444
00:19:45,590 --> 00:19:42,360
sense that on the same day I get huge

445
00:19:47,690 --> 00:19:45,600
support from some people and including

446
00:19:50,570 --> 00:19:47,700
the public including very prominent

447
00:19:52,490 --> 00:19:50,580
people and including funders but at the

448
00:19:56,810 --> 00:19:52,500
same time there are people that dismiss

449
00:19:59,990 --> 00:19:56,820
the the notion uh it's less so these

450
00:20:03,289 --> 00:20:00,000
days because I think there was some

451
00:20:06,590 --> 00:20:03,299
traction to my arguments and more people

452
00:20:09,049 --> 00:20:06,600
are interested in this possibility and

453
00:20:10,850 --> 00:20:09,059
that was my intention all along to

454
00:20:12,730 --> 00:20:10,860
change the nature of the conversation to

455
00:20:16,850 --> 00:20:12,740
make people more open-minded because

456
00:20:19,549 --> 00:20:16,860
obviously experts want to preserve their

457
00:20:21,830 --> 00:20:19,559
status in in the sense that they can

458
00:20:23,690 --> 00:20:21,840
explain everything based on their past

459
00:20:26,270 --> 00:20:23,700
knowledge you know that's again related

460
00:20:28,310 --> 00:20:26,280
to their ego so in order for they don't

461
00:20:31,130 --> 00:20:28,320
want to take any risks they don't want

462
00:20:33,169 --> 00:20:31,140
to imagine things that are not based on

463
00:20:34,789 --> 00:20:33,179
what they already know so they would

464
00:20:36,649 --> 00:20:34,799
argue that everything in the sky must be

465
00:20:39,590 --> 00:20:36,659
natural Israel and rocks you know like

466
00:20:41,390 --> 00:20:39,600
even if it's a rock of a type we've

467
00:20:43,510 --> 00:20:41,400
never seen before so that's a natural

468
00:20:46,549 --> 00:20:43,520
tendency but we should resist it because

469
00:20:49,789 --> 00:20:46,559
curiosity drives discoveries in science

470
00:20:51,649 --> 00:20:49,799
and if you keep always inventing things

471
00:20:54,730 --> 00:20:51,659
that we've never seen before as a

472
00:20:57,110 --> 00:20:54,740
substitute for something that is really

473
00:21:00,289 --> 00:20:57,120
extraordinary like another civilization

474
00:21:02,330 --> 00:21:00,299
then you will never find that evidence

475
00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:02,340
um and you know it's often said

476
00:21:05,930 --> 00:21:04,080
extraordinary claims require

477
00:21:08,409 --> 00:21:05,940
extraordinary evidence that was a

478
00:21:10,850 --> 00:21:08,419
statement made by Carl Sagan in the 70s

479
00:21:13,789 --> 00:21:10,860
my point is extraordinary evidence

480
00:21:15,830 --> 00:21:13,799
requires extraordinary funding if you

481
00:21:17,870 --> 00:21:15,840
don't search you will never find that

482
00:21:19,909 --> 00:21:17,880
evidence and if you look at the Dark

483
00:21:21,409 --> 00:21:19,919
Matter search we invested billions of

484
00:21:23,870 --> 00:21:21,419
dollars most recently in the Large

485
00:21:26,510 --> 00:21:23,880
Hadron Collider we were looking for a

486
00:21:29,810 --> 00:21:26,520
specific popular type of particles

487
00:21:31,430 --> 00:21:29,820
called the weekly interacting massive

488
00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:31,440
particle so super the lightest

489
00:21:36,230 --> 00:21:33,840
supersymmetric particle and we haven't

490
00:21:37,730 --> 00:21:36,240
found them even though we were searching

491
00:21:40,430 --> 00:21:37,740
in the natural parameter space and

492
00:21:42,710 --> 00:21:40,440
people proposed for decades and you know

493
00:21:46,310 --> 00:21:42,720
this this experiment cost 10 billion

494
00:21:48,950 --> 00:21:46,320
dollars and so if we invest billions of

495
00:21:51,950 --> 00:21:48,960
dollars in the search for equipment from

496
00:21:53,630 --> 00:21:51,960
other civilizations in space and within

497
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:53,640
a few decades from now we don't find

498
00:21:59,210 --> 00:21:56,400
anything then we would be exactly at the

499
00:22:02,649 --> 00:21:59,220
same point as dark matter searches are

500
00:22:05,149 --> 00:22:02,659
right now and frankly uh finding

501
00:22:07,490 --> 00:22:05,159
evidence for a smarter kid on the Block

502
00:22:09,350 --> 00:22:07,500
would have much bigger implications for

503
00:22:11,330 --> 00:22:09,360
Humanity than finding that the dark

504
00:22:13,789 --> 00:22:11,340
matter is some weekly interacting

505
00:22:15,230 --> 00:22:13,799
massive particle because you know that

506
00:22:18,289 --> 00:22:15,240
wouldn't affect the daily lives of

507
00:22:20,289 --> 00:22:18,299
people but finding the that there is

508
00:22:22,250 --> 00:22:20,299
someone else out there will change our

509
00:22:25,549 --> 00:22:22,260
perspective on our place in the

510
00:22:27,649 --> 00:22:25,559
Universal so I say you know how can we

511
00:22:30,710 --> 00:22:27,659
be uh

512
00:22:32,450 --> 00:22:30,720
you know so intolerant to the

513
00:22:35,930 --> 00:22:32,460
possibility that we might find something

514
00:22:37,730 --> 00:22:35,940
so as not to fund the search that makes

515
00:22:39,830 --> 00:22:37,740
very little sense given what we are

516
00:22:42,830 --> 00:22:39,840
doing in the context of dark matter and

517
00:22:44,510 --> 00:22:42,840
to me it sounds just like common sense

518
00:22:47,110 --> 00:22:44,520
but somehow

519
00:22:49,789 --> 00:22:47,120
only the public and the government

520
00:22:52,070 --> 00:22:49,799
recognizes it at the moment and I just

521
00:22:53,330 --> 00:22:52,080
find it surprising given that the halls

522
00:22:56,870 --> 00:22:53,340
of Academia are supposed to be

523
00:22:58,669 --> 00:22:56,880
open-minded Blue Sky risk taking that's

524
00:23:01,370 --> 00:22:58,679
the whole nature of scientific inquiry

525
00:23:05,450 --> 00:23:01,380
so we're taking risks on things that are

526
00:23:08,029 --> 00:23:05,460
not as uh consequential for our for our

527
00:23:09,289 --> 00:23:08,039
future such as the nature of the of dark

528
00:23:12,710 --> 00:23:09,299
matter we are willing to invest business

529
00:23:14,990 --> 00:23:12,720
but then zero Federal funding to the

530
00:23:17,690 --> 00:23:15,000
search for things that we are sending to

531
00:23:22,070 --> 00:23:17,700
space coming from another civilization

532
00:23:24,710 --> 00:23:22,080
okay yeah thank you so much you know we

533
00:23:25,970 --> 00:23:24,720
it's very on topic that we talk to a lot

534
00:23:28,130 --> 00:23:25,980
of people

535
00:23:29,750 --> 00:23:28,140
um kind of behind the scenes not on on

536
00:23:31,610 --> 00:23:29,760
the podcast talking to a lot of people

537
00:23:33,470 --> 00:23:31,620
who are thoughtful professionals who

538
00:23:35,810 --> 00:23:33,480
have been privately looking at these

539
00:23:38,270 --> 00:23:35,820
issues sometimes for quite a while

540
00:23:40,730 --> 00:23:38,280
and they love talking about it but they

541
00:23:42,649 --> 00:23:40,740
still they're still reluctant they don't

542
00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:42,659
feel comfortable being associated with

543
00:23:47,990 --> 00:23:44,880
the the uip topic because of this

544
00:23:51,169 --> 00:23:48,000
lingering ridicule right I suspect you

545
00:23:53,269 --> 00:23:51,179
know also in in public you know there's

546
00:23:54,710 --> 00:23:53,279
a lot of acceptance for these topics

547
00:23:57,950 --> 00:23:54,720
there's a lot of interest in these

548
00:24:00,049 --> 00:23:57,960
topics and at the same time uh there's

549
00:24:02,390 --> 00:24:00,059
this idea often in the public

550
00:24:04,909 --> 00:24:02,400
imagination that science is this kind of

551
00:24:06,830 --> 00:24:04,919
monolith right that isn't that doesn't

552
00:24:09,830 --> 00:24:06,840
have shifting sand or anything like this

553
00:24:11,510 --> 00:24:09,840
I suspect that in your many years in

554
00:24:13,850 --> 00:24:11,520
science and Academia you've seen

555
00:24:15,769 --> 00:24:13,860
subjects get extraordinary ridicule

556
00:24:17,690 --> 00:24:15,779
people saying it couldn't possibly be

557
00:24:19,310 --> 00:24:17,700
that it couldn't possibly be that and

558
00:24:21,470 --> 00:24:19,320
then that subject turns out to have a

559
00:24:23,510 --> 00:24:21,480
lot of Merit to it right have you seen

560
00:24:26,810 --> 00:24:23,520
that happen yourself and if so oh yeah

561
00:24:28,789 --> 00:24:26,820
many times and and if and if so what

562
00:24:30,710 --> 00:24:28,799
what what can you

563
00:24:33,289 --> 00:24:30,720
um what emboldens you about those kinds

564
00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:33,299
of precedents in terms of what you can

565
00:24:38,090 --> 00:24:35,760
say to the public yeah well first let me

566
00:24:40,850 --> 00:24:38,100
Express the lesson that I've learned

567
00:24:43,250 --> 00:24:40,860
from my experience which is not to pay

568
00:24:45,769 --> 00:24:43,260
attention to how many likes you have

569
00:24:48,169 --> 00:24:45,779
but to pay attention to the evidence be

570
00:24:51,010 --> 00:24:48,179
guided by the evidence now you find a

571
00:24:53,570 --> 00:24:51,020
lot of people in politics that maneuver

572
00:24:55,070 --> 00:24:53,580
politically so that they will maximize

573
00:24:58,310 --> 00:24:55,080
the number of likes

574
00:25:00,350 --> 00:24:58,320
you find a lot of people that just enjoy

575
00:25:02,330 --> 00:25:00,360
the social interaction and just try to

576
00:25:06,789 --> 00:25:02,340
maximize the number of likes but that's

577
00:25:12,230 --> 00:25:09,890
defined it and we are still following

578
00:25:15,830 --> 00:25:12,240
that method should be guided by evidence

579
00:25:18,769 --> 00:25:15,840
by data not by what people say because

580
00:25:20,750 --> 00:25:18,779
in the days of Galileo he was put in

581
00:25:22,909 --> 00:25:20,760
house arrest and today he would have

582
00:25:24,890 --> 00:25:22,919
been canceled on social media for

583
00:25:28,090 --> 00:25:24,900
expressing views that are not popular

584
00:25:31,669 --> 00:25:28,100
okay but it's not a popularity contest

585
00:25:33,890 --> 00:25:31,679
like in politics what we are trying to

586
00:25:35,810 --> 00:25:33,900
figure out is the nature of reality and

587
00:25:37,909 --> 00:25:35,820
you know whether the Earth moves around

588
00:25:40,510 --> 00:25:37,919
the Sun or the sun moves around the

589
00:25:43,970 --> 00:25:40,520
earth is not a popularity

590
00:25:46,669 --> 00:25:43,980
issue it's just a reality that we live

591
00:25:48,649 --> 00:25:46,679
in so if you send off a satellite the

592
00:25:50,930 --> 00:25:48,659
satellite can take an image of the Earth

593
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:50,940
and the Sun and realize who is moving

594
00:25:55,490 --> 00:25:51,840
around

595
00:25:58,370 --> 00:25:55,500
which object that that is not a

596
00:26:00,529 --> 00:25:58,380
philosophical issue and as much as you

597
00:26:01,970 --> 00:26:00,539
don't like the notion that the Earth is

598
00:26:05,630 --> 00:26:01,980
not at the center of the universe that's

599
00:26:07,730 --> 00:26:05,640
completely irrelevant okay so the the

600
00:26:10,310 --> 00:26:07,740
bottom line is we should be guided by

601
00:26:13,190 --> 00:26:10,320
evidence but very often very often

602
00:26:16,250 --> 00:26:13,200
humans prefer because of their ego

603
00:26:18,890 --> 00:26:16,260
because of other social reasons prefer a

604
00:26:21,769 --> 00:26:18,900
notion that is not realistic and how do

605
00:26:24,830 --> 00:26:21,779
they protect it by not collecting data

606
00:26:27,710 --> 00:26:24,840
by having a stigma on anything that is

607
00:26:30,169 --> 00:26:27,720
different okay so the stigma keeps you

608
00:26:31,850 --> 00:26:30,179
in a bubble it's just like you know in

609
00:26:34,490 --> 00:26:31,860
politics you can be in a bubble that

610
00:26:36,350 --> 00:26:34,500
justifies your no your ideas but in

611
00:26:38,450 --> 00:26:36,360
science there is a way out of it which

612
00:26:40,130 --> 00:26:38,460
is to do experiments to collect data

613
00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:40,140
because that takes you out of the bubble

614
00:26:43,250 --> 00:26:41,520
if you are wrong

615
00:26:45,110 --> 00:26:43,260
and if you were to ask those

616
00:26:47,690 --> 00:26:45,120
philosophers in the days of Galileo to

617
00:26:49,190 --> 00:26:47,700
design a space mission to Mars they

618
00:26:50,870 --> 00:26:49,200
would never reach the destination

619
00:26:53,090 --> 00:26:50,880
because they thought that Mars moves

620
00:26:54,890 --> 00:26:53,100
around the Earth but Mars doesn't move

621
00:26:57,049 --> 00:26:54,900
around the earth it moves around the Sun

622
00:26:59,330 --> 00:26:57,059
so you would never get there if you have

623
00:27:02,090 --> 00:26:59,340
the wrong ideas that's the beauty of

624
00:27:05,269 --> 00:27:02,100
science you can do an experiment and you

625
00:27:07,610 --> 00:27:05,279
can test which version of the story is

626
00:27:09,710 --> 00:27:07,620
correct and that takes you out of your

627
00:27:11,029 --> 00:27:09,720
bubble there are many instances in the

628
00:27:12,710 --> 00:27:11,039
history of science where people thought

629
00:27:15,890 --> 00:27:12,720
one thing but then did the experiment

630
00:27:18,049 --> 00:27:15,900
realize they were wrong okay so in my

631
00:27:20,330 --> 00:27:18,059
short career there were several cases

632
00:27:22,070 --> 00:27:20,340
where I was proposing something that

633
00:27:25,549 --> 00:27:22,080
ended up being right and people were

634
00:27:28,370 --> 00:27:25,559
just ridiculing it dismissing it but let

635
00:27:31,549 --> 00:27:28,380
me mention first that the big items that

636
00:27:34,250 --> 00:27:31,559
you know for example the existence of

637
00:27:37,490 --> 00:27:34,260
exoplanets around other stars you know

638
00:27:39,230 --> 00:27:37,500
and when I started astrophysics it was

639
00:27:41,930 --> 00:27:39,240
widely believed that maybe the solar

640
00:27:43,909 --> 00:27:41,940
system is unique that you don't have of

641
00:27:45,529 --> 00:27:43,919
an Earth-like planet around the

642
00:27:47,870 --> 00:27:45,539
significant fraction of the sun-like

643
00:27:50,870 --> 00:27:47,880
stars in fact you may not have any

644
00:27:52,669 --> 00:27:50,880
planets around other stars

645
00:27:55,070 --> 00:27:52,679
in retrospect it's hard to believe

646
00:27:57,889 --> 00:27:55,080
that's the case like why would people

647
00:28:00,169 --> 00:27:57,899
think that why would we feel that we are

648
00:28:01,010 --> 00:28:00,179
privileged in any way it turned out to

649
00:28:03,590 --> 00:28:01,020
be wrong

650
00:28:06,289 --> 00:28:03,600
and now we know that a substantial

651
00:28:08,090 --> 00:28:06,299
fraction of all the sunlight stars have

652
00:28:10,310 --> 00:28:08,100
an earth-sized Planet roughly at the

653
00:28:13,070 --> 00:28:10,320
same separation like half of them or a

654
00:28:16,190 --> 00:28:13,080
third of them a quarter so a substantial

655
00:28:20,289 --> 00:28:16,200
fraction uh so our backyard is not

656
00:28:24,049 --> 00:28:20,299
privileged uh another example uh

657
00:28:26,090 --> 00:28:24,059
gravitational waves when I uh started

658
00:28:28,610 --> 00:28:26,100
astrophysics this subject was ridiculed

659
00:28:31,789 --> 00:28:28,620
that we will ever be able to construct

660
00:28:34,490 --> 00:28:31,799
uh a detector that will find

661
00:28:37,850 --> 00:28:34,500
gravitational waves and uh in fact the

662
00:28:40,970 --> 00:28:37,860
people who proposed it led by Ray Wise

663
00:28:43,730 --> 00:28:40,980
at MIT uh were ridiculed by their

664
00:28:46,669 --> 00:28:43,740
colleagues he told me the story at MIT

665
00:28:48,590 --> 00:28:46,679
he was ridiculed by members of the

666
00:28:50,930 --> 00:28:48,600
physics department saying this is

667
00:28:53,210 --> 00:28:50,940
ridiculous it will never be measured and

668
00:28:55,970 --> 00:28:53,220
he was not funded locally

669
00:28:58,430 --> 00:28:55,980
so it took him decades to bring it to

670
00:29:02,570 --> 00:28:58,440
fruition and then as soon as the

671
00:29:05,570 --> 00:29:02,580
experiment was sensitive enough in 2015

672
00:29:06,889 --> 00:29:05,580
they detected a whopping signal from a

673
00:29:08,810 --> 00:29:06,899
gravitational wave source and then he

674
00:29:11,870 --> 00:29:08,820
got the Nobel Prize a few years later

675
00:29:14,630 --> 00:29:11,880
but he had to go through many decades of

676
00:29:16,669 --> 00:29:14,640
ridicule and dismissal

677
00:29:19,549 --> 00:29:16,679
um another example is the dark matter

678
00:29:22,250 --> 00:29:19,559
that I mentioned the fritz Wiki was

679
00:29:24,470 --> 00:29:22,260
ridiculed on that and in fact 40 years

680
00:29:25,730 --> 00:29:24,480
after he made his proposal that there is

681
00:29:28,450 --> 00:29:25,740
most of the matter in the universe is

682
00:29:31,490 --> 00:29:28,460
dark I know of

683
00:29:33,070 --> 00:29:31,500
another astronomer Jerry ostraker who

684
00:29:35,930 --> 00:29:33,080
became the director

685
00:29:38,630 --> 00:29:35,940
of the Princeton University Observatory

686
00:29:41,210 --> 00:29:38,640
around the same time in the early 70s he

687
00:29:44,690 --> 00:29:41,220
gave a colloquium at Caltech the home of

688
00:29:47,210 --> 00:29:44,700
Fritz Wiki about Dark Matter evidence

689
00:29:50,269 --> 00:29:47,220
based on work that he did with Nobel

690
00:29:52,190 --> 00:29:50,279
Laureate Jim pibbles uh so Jerry osuke

691
00:29:55,549 --> 00:29:52,200
was trying to argue there is dark matter

692
00:29:58,730 --> 00:29:55,559
in galaxies and again the audience

693
00:30:01,310 --> 00:29:58,740
ridiculed him and that notion he I heard

694
00:30:02,930 --> 00:30:01,320
it from him and now of course everyone

695
00:30:05,810 --> 00:30:02,940
believes in Dark Matter between just

696
00:30:08,630 --> 00:30:05,820
don't know what it is and so there are

697
00:30:10,549 --> 00:30:08,640
many examples like that and for my from

698
00:30:12,289 --> 00:30:10,559
my perspective you know just to give you

699
00:30:13,789 --> 00:30:12,299
an example

700
00:30:14,570 --> 00:30:13,799
um so

701
00:30:18,490 --> 00:30:14,580
um

702
00:30:21,110 --> 00:30:18,500
I propose that for example you can probe

703
00:30:23,149 --> 00:30:21,120
the space time around the black hole if

704
00:30:26,389 --> 00:30:23,159
you have a light bulb like a hot spot

705
00:30:28,909 --> 00:30:26,399
moving around it and experts when I said

706
00:30:31,010 --> 00:30:28,919
that to some experts they said oh that

707
00:30:32,389 --> 00:30:31,020
will share this the as it moves around

708
00:30:34,490 --> 00:30:32,399
the black hole you would not see

709
00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:34,500
anything I was at Princeton at the time

710
00:30:38,450 --> 00:30:36,720
for a sabbatical so then I decided to

711
00:30:41,389 --> 00:30:38,460
write a paper about it with my postdoc

712
00:30:45,470 --> 00:30:41,399
Avery Broderick and and then guess what

713
00:30:47,990 --> 00:30:45,480
15 years later it was discovered by a

714
00:30:50,029 --> 00:30:48,000
team in Germany they found it near the

715
00:30:52,490 --> 00:30:50,039
black hole of the Milky Way galaxy they

716
00:30:54,830 --> 00:30:52,500
found a hot spot moving around and they

717
00:30:57,370 --> 00:30:54,840
were able to trace it moving in the sky

718
00:31:00,649 --> 00:30:57,380
just the same way that I

719
00:31:02,690 --> 00:31:00,659
expected another example

720
00:31:05,870 --> 00:31:02,700
um I was at a conference in the

721
00:31:07,970 --> 00:31:05,880
Netherlands in the year 2000 and they

722
00:31:10,370 --> 00:31:07,980
were talking about the fact that the

723
00:31:12,490 --> 00:31:10,380
mass of a black hole is correlated with

724
00:31:16,070 --> 00:31:12,500
the amount of light that the host

725
00:31:17,990 --> 00:31:16,080
spheroid of stars is is a meeting and I

726
00:31:20,029 --> 00:31:18,000
said why don't you try to correlate it

727
00:31:21,769 --> 00:31:20,039
this this doesn't make too much sense

728
00:31:23,750 --> 00:31:21,779
but why don't you try to correlate it

729
00:31:25,970 --> 00:31:23,760
with the depth of the gravitational

730
00:31:28,370 --> 00:31:25,980
potential well that holds the black hole

731
00:31:31,130 --> 00:31:28,380
because you expect the black hole to

732
00:31:34,330 --> 00:31:31,140
grow as a result of a creation of gas

733
00:31:37,070 --> 00:31:34,340
and whether the gas can be retained

734
00:31:38,870 --> 00:31:37,080
despite the feedback from the black or

735
00:31:42,529 --> 00:31:38,880
it depends on how deep the potential oil

736
00:31:44,990 --> 00:31:42,539
of the host spheroid of stars is and I

737
00:31:47,149 --> 00:31:45,000
was told that this makes no sense that

738
00:31:49,909 --> 00:31:47,159
in fact it's very difficult to measure

739
00:31:51,649 --> 00:31:49,919
the velocities of stars and so then I

740
00:31:55,009 --> 00:31:51,659
mentioned it to two observers that

741
00:31:57,230 --> 00:31:55,019
visited the harbor then they LED teams

742
00:31:59,090 --> 00:31:57,240
that within a few months did the

743
00:32:02,990 --> 00:31:59,100
correlation that I proposed

744
00:32:05,450 --> 00:32:03,000
and you know they found an amazing car a

745
00:32:07,850 --> 00:32:05,460
very tight correlation between the black

746
00:32:09,169 --> 00:32:07,860
hole mass and the characteristic depth

747
00:32:11,029 --> 00:32:09,179
of the gravitational potential well

748
00:32:14,149 --> 00:32:11,039
around it and

749
00:32:15,590 --> 00:32:14,159
um then the two teams that I guided in

750
00:32:17,389 --> 00:32:15,600
this direction they started to fight

751
00:32:19,009 --> 00:32:17,399
with each other about credit

752
00:32:21,350 --> 00:32:19,019
but

753
00:32:23,870 --> 00:32:21,360
um it was really strange that a few

754
00:32:25,850 --> 00:32:23,880
months earlier the subject was ridiculed

755
00:32:28,310 --> 00:32:25,860
when I suggested it to other observers

756
00:32:30,710 --> 00:32:28,320
so to me it illustrates that whenever

757
00:32:32,930 --> 00:32:30,720
you suggest something new that goes

758
00:32:36,110 --> 00:32:32,940
beyond the way people think about a

759
00:32:38,990 --> 00:32:36,120
problem they resist it they resisted for

760
00:32:41,149 --> 00:32:39,000
a variety of reasons one reason is they

761
00:32:43,009 --> 00:32:41,159
didn't come up with the idea how dare

762
00:32:45,169 --> 00:32:43,019
you come up with it they want it to be

763
00:32:46,789 --> 00:32:45,179
wrong so that they it would not look as

764
00:32:49,430 --> 00:32:46,799
if they missed something they're jealous

765
00:32:51,049 --> 00:32:49,440
okay that's very common jealousy is very

766
00:32:53,269 --> 00:32:51,059
common so if someone proposes something

767
00:32:55,430 --> 00:32:53,279
that will try to kill it just like a

768
00:32:58,190 --> 00:32:55,440
flower blooming above the grass level

769
00:33:00,409 --> 00:32:58,200
you want to step on it because how dare

770
00:33:02,990 --> 00:33:00,419
this flower rise above the grass level

771
00:33:06,409 --> 00:33:03,000
and so that's a very common tendency in

772
00:33:08,690 --> 00:33:06,419
Academia where ideas are being dismissed

773
00:33:10,310 --> 00:33:08,700
just for the reason that the people who

774
00:33:13,250 --> 00:33:10,320
dismiss them did not come up with them

775
00:33:14,870 --> 00:33:13,260
okay that's very common it's not for the

776
00:33:17,409 --> 00:33:14,880
Merit of the idea because obviously in

777
00:33:21,769 --> 00:33:17,419
those examples there was a lot of Merit

778
00:33:23,810 --> 00:33:21,779
and the second is uh not taking risks

779
00:33:26,690 --> 00:33:23,820
that a lot of people prefer to be on the

780
00:33:29,269 --> 00:33:26,700
safe side and just not do not want to

781
00:33:31,070 --> 00:33:29,279
venture from the beaten path that's a

782
00:33:34,970 --> 00:33:31,080
natural tendency it's the herd mentality

783
00:33:37,190 --> 00:33:34,980
of people feeling uh more secure in

784
00:33:39,289 --> 00:33:37,200
herds and you see it in the animal

785
00:33:42,110 --> 00:33:39,299
kingdom you know if you go to Africa you

786
00:33:44,810 --> 00:33:42,120
see animals in hurts why are they in

787
00:33:47,750 --> 00:33:44,820
hurts because a herd is a more powerful

788
00:33:50,389 --> 00:33:47,760
entity than an individual if you are on

789
00:33:52,549 --> 00:33:50,399
your own you know you are subject to

790
00:33:54,350 --> 00:33:52,559
risks but if you go in a herd it's much

791
00:33:56,870 --> 00:33:54,360
more powerful you feel the confidence

792
00:34:00,289 --> 00:33:56,880
that you can you know go together with a

793
00:34:02,990 --> 00:34:00,299
community of others like you so that's

794
00:34:04,850 --> 00:34:03,000
why animals go in hurts that's why a lot

795
00:34:07,970 --> 00:34:04,860
of people have the herd mentality

796
00:34:10,010 --> 00:34:07,980
because they feel more secure in a herd

797
00:34:11,810 --> 00:34:10,020
and of course you see it in academic

798
00:34:14,629 --> 00:34:11,820
research people don't deviate from the

799
00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:14,639
beaten path this way they don't risk any

800
00:34:19,970 --> 00:34:16,800
anything they don't risk making mistakes

801
00:34:23,030 --> 00:34:19,980
and they're also liked by their peers so

802
00:34:25,909 --> 00:34:23,040
that if they apply for Grants the grants

803
00:34:28,369 --> 00:34:25,919
get funded if they apply for a job they

804
00:34:30,710 --> 00:34:28,379
get that job so they are they keep being

805
00:34:34,069 --> 00:34:30,720
evaluated by their peers and one way to

806
00:34:36,829 --> 00:34:34,079
maintain good relationship is to never

807
00:34:38,629 --> 00:34:36,839
suggest something that is completely off

808
00:34:40,790 --> 00:34:38,639
what these other people are thinking

809
00:34:43,069 --> 00:34:40,800
about because otherwise it offends those

810
00:34:45,889 --> 00:34:43,079
other people sure I mean I've seen that

811
00:34:47,869 --> 00:34:45,899
my working professional life if if you

812
00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:47,879
suggest something that's just and it's

813
00:34:53,450 --> 00:34:50,399
so it's not just Academia or science

814
00:34:55,250 --> 00:34:53,460
it's just a human a human thing if

815
00:34:57,430 --> 00:34:55,260
somebody goes out on a limb it takes a

816
00:35:01,490 --> 00:34:57,440
risks and and wants to try something

817
00:35:03,230 --> 00:35:01,500
people are going to make fun of you to

818
00:35:05,270 --> 00:35:03,240
stop you from doing it because if you

819
00:35:08,630 --> 00:35:05,280
succeed if you are Jimi Hendrix for

820
00:35:11,750 --> 00:35:08,640
instance you know who was a huge risk

821
00:35:13,970 --> 00:35:11,760
taker in his music career and you become

822
00:35:16,849 --> 00:35:13,980
a legend like they're they're gonna hate

823
00:35:18,470 --> 00:35:16,859
you out of jealousy because they didn't

824
00:35:19,069 --> 00:35:18,480
have

825
00:35:22,130 --> 00:35:19,079
um

826
00:35:23,870 --> 00:35:22,140
the nuts so to speak to try it

827
00:35:26,150 --> 00:35:23,880
themselves you know in the business

828
00:35:28,250 --> 00:35:26,160
world if you you know if you have a good

829
00:35:29,990 --> 00:35:28,260
idea you could make a big profit out of

830
00:35:32,630 --> 00:35:30,000
it and that propels you for the next

831
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:32,640
risk taking Endeavor and you can see it

832
00:35:38,030 --> 00:35:35,760
quite commonly that people that you know

833
00:35:39,770 --> 00:35:38,040
were successful initially became even

834
00:35:43,490 --> 00:35:39,780
more successful later on because they

835
00:35:47,270 --> 00:35:43,500
had the funds to initiate the new new uh

836
00:35:49,010 --> 00:35:47,280
uh ideas and so forth and uh but in

837
00:35:51,410 --> 00:35:49,020
Academia it's not like that because

838
00:35:52,190 --> 00:35:51,420
you're always dependent on people

839
00:35:55,310 --> 00:35:52,200
um

840
00:35:58,849 --> 00:35:55,320
around you in terms of getting funded in

841
00:36:00,170 --> 00:35:58,859
terms of promotion you see and for me I

842
00:36:04,730 --> 00:36:00,180
was able to

843
00:36:07,670 --> 00:36:04,740
um get myself freed from these uh forces

844
00:36:09,950 --> 00:36:07,680
because for two reasons because I'm well

845
00:36:14,210 --> 00:36:09,960
established so I don't depend on what

846
00:36:16,609 --> 00:36:14,220
other people say and the second is I get

847
00:36:18,230 --> 00:36:16,619
over the past decade I got all of my

848
00:36:20,870 --> 00:36:18,240
research funding

849
00:36:23,089 --> 00:36:20,880
from the private sector that's quite

850
00:36:25,370 --> 00:36:23,099
amazing I mean it started with

851
00:36:27,950 --> 00:36:25,380
foundations and individuals that funded

852
00:36:29,650 --> 00:36:27,960
it but now with the Galileo project for

853
00:36:32,390 --> 00:36:29,660
example it's really

854
00:36:34,250 --> 00:36:32,400
individuals and that in itself is

855
00:36:37,190 --> 00:36:34,260
revolutionary I mean I could give

856
00:36:38,930 --> 00:36:37,200
scientists A a whole new way of doing

857
00:36:41,089 --> 00:36:38,940
things if they have a great idea to not

858
00:36:43,370 --> 00:36:41,099
be so afraid because maybe if they

859
00:36:45,109 --> 00:36:43,380
hustle a little bit they could find uh

860
00:36:46,910 --> 00:36:45,119
some some funding from the private

861
00:36:49,630 --> 00:36:46,920
sector somewhere yeah what I found and

862
00:36:51,950 --> 00:36:49,640
remarkable is I was just talking about

863
00:36:54,650 --> 00:36:51,960
substance about the things that I care

864
00:36:56,569 --> 00:36:54,660
about in my book and otherwise and then

865
00:36:58,670 --> 00:36:56,579
people came to me and said that they're

866
00:37:00,950 --> 00:36:58,680
willing to donate for my to my towards

867
00:37:04,069 --> 00:37:00,960
my research goals it it was not the

868
00:37:06,470 --> 00:37:04,079
standard practice that I was used to

869
00:37:08,990 --> 00:37:06,480
from decades before where you go

870
00:37:11,810 --> 00:37:09,000
fundraising you have a project and you

871
00:37:14,450 --> 00:37:11,820
say okay now let's make a brochure and

872
00:37:17,630 --> 00:37:14,460
send it to various people that approach

873
00:37:20,450 --> 00:37:17,640
often doesn't work quite well uh and

874
00:37:21,829 --> 00:37:20,460
then you guys instead to uh the standard

875
00:37:25,069 --> 00:37:21,839
foundations the National Science

876
00:37:27,530 --> 00:37:25,079
Foundation maybe NASA and there you

877
00:37:30,109 --> 00:37:27,540
depend on your peers because they serve

878
00:37:32,270 --> 00:37:30,119
on those fund allocation committees so

879
00:37:34,490 --> 00:37:32,280
there is this looped Circle you know

880
00:37:37,130 --> 00:37:34,500
there is this Loop of feedback where

881
00:37:40,130 --> 00:37:37,140
people that are conservative don't take

882
00:37:41,690 --> 00:37:40,140
risks and prefer out of jealousy that

883
00:37:44,510 --> 00:37:41,700
you will not deviate from the beaten

884
00:37:46,490 --> 00:37:44,520
path they dictate the funding through

885
00:37:48,950 --> 00:37:46,500
the normal channels and necessary

886
00:37:51,290 --> 00:37:48,960
without everyone conforms to the same

887
00:37:54,109 --> 00:37:51,300
path and that's bad for Innovation

888
00:37:57,349 --> 00:37:54,119
that's bad for Discovery and the private

889
00:38:00,650 --> 00:37:57,359
sector I think if uh more people would

890
00:38:03,109 --> 00:38:00,660
there and if more funders would come to

891
00:38:06,589 --> 00:38:03,119
the task there is an opportunity to

892
00:38:08,150 --> 00:38:06,599
allow for faster you know progress of

893
00:38:10,490 --> 00:38:08,160
Science in the sense that people will

894
00:38:12,710 --> 00:38:10,500
make more breakthroughs because they're

895
00:38:16,310 --> 00:38:12,720
funded by a different channel that is

896
00:38:18,890 --> 00:38:16,320
not subject to those you know experts

897
00:38:23,510 --> 00:38:18,900
saying there is nothing really new right

898
00:38:25,670 --> 00:38:23,520
yeah now along the lines of kind of

899
00:38:28,849 --> 00:38:25,680
somewhat taboo topics within this field

900
00:38:30,829 --> 00:38:28,859
uh in 2020 in one of the now world

901
00:38:32,990 --> 00:38:30,839
famous series of New York Times articles

902
00:38:35,210 --> 00:38:33,000
written primarily by Leslie Kane and

903
00:38:37,970 --> 00:38:35,220
Ralph Blumenthal there's a fascinating

904
00:38:40,190 --> 00:38:37,980
quote deep in an article titled no

905
00:38:42,829 --> 00:38:40,200
longer in the shadows pentagon's UFO

906
00:38:44,870 --> 00:38:42,839
unit will make some findings public now

907
00:38:46,970 --> 00:38:44,880
of course this preceded the UAP task

908
00:38:49,430 --> 00:38:46,980
force report that you've spoken about

909
00:38:51,589 --> 00:38:49,440
and other things but this quote it's a

910
00:38:53,870 --> 00:38:51,599
quote by a man named Dr Eric Davis who

911
00:38:55,730 --> 00:38:53,880
has worked in the past on contracts and

912
00:38:58,130 --> 00:38:55,740
projects with people like Dr Jacque

913
00:39:00,170 --> 00:38:58,140
Valley who's on your research team over

914
00:39:03,050 --> 00:39:00,180
there at the Galileo project now here's

915
00:39:04,910 --> 00:39:03,060
the quote Mr Davis who now works for

916
00:39:07,010 --> 00:39:04,920
Aerospace Corporation a defense

917
00:39:09,290 --> 00:39:07,020
contractor said he gave a classified

918
00:39:11,990 --> 00:39:09,300
briefing to a defense department agency

919
00:39:14,450 --> 00:39:12,000
as recently as March about retrievals

920
00:39:17,329 --> 00:39:14,460
from quote off-world Vehicles not made

921
00:39:19,490 --> 00:39:17,339
on this Earth unquote Mr Davis said he

922
00:39:21,890 --> 00:39:19,500
also gave classified briefings on

923
00:39:23,569 --> 00:39:21,900
retrievals of unexplained objects to

924
00:39:25,910 --> 00:39:23,579
staff members of the Senate armed

925
00:39:28,430 --> 00:39:25,920
service committee on October 21st 2019

926
00:39:29,990 --> 00:39:28,440
and to staff members of the Senate

927
00:39:32,569 --> 00:39:30,000
intelligence committee two days later

928
00:39:34,790 --> 00:39:32,579
have you talked to anyone Dr Davis or

929
00:39:38,089 --> 00:39:34,800
otherwise about this area of craft

930
00:39:40,910 --> 00:39:38,099
retrievals and if such retrieved objects

931
00:39:43,190 --> 00:39:40,920
do exist of known technology not made by

932
00:39:45,109 --> 00:39:43,200
our civilization how quickly would you

933
00:39:47,109 --> 00:39:45,119
be knocking on those doors have you

934
00:39:51,770 --> 00:39:47,119
knocked on any doors like that or ready

935
00:39:55,910 --> 00:39:51,780
no I mean I did not try to approach any

936
00:39:58,490 --> 00:39:55,920
government data you know I think the

937
00:40:01,130 --> 00:39:58,500
most convincing data is classified for

938
00:40:04,010 --> 00:40:01,140
good reasons that the sensors that

939
00:40:08,329 --> 00:40:04,020
discovered the data are classified but

940
00:40:11,870 --> 00:40:08,339
in terms of materials recovered I have

941
00:40:16,550 --> 00:40:11,880
no direct information on such material

942
00:40:19,309 --> 00:40:16,560
and what it uh what it entails and

943
00:40:21,770 --> 00:40:19,319
um of course I would love to see it and

944
00:40:24,530 --> 00:40:21,780
learn about it but at the same time I'm

945
00:40:27,349 --> 00:40:24,540
not naive you know waiting for the

946
00:40:30,290 --> 00:40:27,359
government to declassify information is

947
00:40:33,109 --> 00:40:30,300
just like waiting for Godot in this

948
00:40:36,290 --> 00:40:33,119
famous play by Samuel Beckett you can

949
00:40:39,589 --> 00:40:36,300
wait forever now the one thing that we

950
00:40:42,349 --> 00:40:39,599
see is people who were exposed who saw

951
00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:42,359
the data that the government has talking

952
00:40:47,089 --> 00:40:44,160
about it seriously and to me that's

953
00:40:49,309 --> 00:40:47,099
quite intriguing I mean many scientists

954
00:40:51,530 --> 00:40:49,319
simply ignore that and dismiss that but

955
00:40:55,250 --> 00:40:51,540
the fact that there is something

956
00:40:57,349 --> 00:40:55,260
interesting is implied by responsible

957
00:41:00,710 --> 00:40:57,359
politicians talking about it seriously

958
00:41:02,329 --> 00:41:00,720
uh they would not do that unless there

959
00:41:05,150 --> 00:41:02,339
was convincing evidence but we haven't

960
00:41:08,630 --> 00:41:05,160
seen it all the data we have seen uh in

961
00:41:11,089 --> 00:41:08,640
the public uh has to do with fuzzy

962
00:41:12,890 --> 00:41:11,099
images from cell phones from that that

963
00:41:16,970 --> 00:41:12,900
are not really convincing including in

964
00:41:19,670 --> 00:41:16,980
the uh Congressional discussion that was

965
00:41:22,609 --> 00:41:19,680
most recently you know in the open part

966
00:41:24,950 --> 00:41:22,619
that was open to the public the data

967
00:41:27,770 --> 00:41:24,960
that was shown was of low quality very

968
00:41:32,450 --> 00:41:27,780
sort of disappointing but then they had

969
00:41:34,329 --> 00:41:32,460
a a another part for their deliberations

970
00:41:37,670 --> 00:41:34,339
that was classified

971
00:41:40,790 --> 00:41:37,680
behind closed doors and you know I would

972
00:41:43,790 --> 00:41:40,800
have loved to be a a fly on the wall of

973
00:41:47,030 --> 00:41:43,800
that of that me too but the point is

974
00:41:49,430 --> 00:41:47,040
since they don't release it we should

975
00:41:51,230 --> 00:41:49,440
just go ahead and retrieve our own data

976
00:41:52,430 --> 00:41:51,240
that's the philosophy of the Galileo

977
00:41:54,770 --> 00:41:52,440
project because the sky is not

978
00:41:56,290 --> 00:41:54,780
classified you know if it's if it's a

979
00:41:59,030 --> 00:41:56,300
scientific matter

980
00:42:00,410 --> 00:41:59,040
it doesn't adhere to National borders

981
00:42:03,170 --> 00:42:00,420
it's not a matter of National Security

982
00:42:04,370 --> 00:42:03,180
it's only the sensors that collected the

983
00:42:05,930 --> 00:42:04,380
data that are a matter of National

984
00:42:08,750 --> 00:42:05,940
Security that's why the government keeps

985
00:42:10,370 --> 00:42:08,760
it secret but a scientist we can try and

986
00:42:12,349 --> 00:42:10,380
collect our own data and figure it out

987
00:42:14,870 --> 00:42:12,359
and I don't mind you know if we figure

988
00:42:16,849 --> 00:42:14,880
out that all these objects have simple

989
00:42:19,730 --> 00:42:16,859
explanations as being atmospheric

990
00:42:22,730 --> 00:42:19,740
phenomena or being some natural objects

991
00:42:24,530 --> 00:42:22,740
or being human-made objects I don't care

992
00:42:26,569 --> 00:42:24,540
at least we will clear up the fog it's

993
00:42:28,190 --> 00:42:26,579
not as if we have an agenda we are

994
00:42:30,710 --> 00:42:28,200
completely agnostic in the gala project

995
00:42:33,829 --> 00:42:30,720
and I brought people that are that are

996
00:42:35,930 --> 00:42:33,839
both Advocates and Skeptics of the

997
00:42:39,589 --> 00:42:35,940
various interpretations and my reason

998
00:42:43,069 --> 00:42:39,599
for doing that is simple uh if the two

999
00:42:45,530 --> 00:42:43,079
sides agree after we collect the data on

1000
00:42:47,930 --> 00:42:45,540
the interpretation that that is a litmus

1001
00:42:50,030 --> 00:42:47,940
test you know it's like nari in a cave

1002
00:42:52,430 --> 00:42:50,040
it tells me that the evidence is strong

1003
00:42:55,309 --> 00:42:52,440
enough so I want to have both sides of

1004
00:42:57,230 --> 00:42:55,319
the conversation in the team such that

1005
00:42:59,410 --> 00:42:57,240
eventually it's the data that will

1006
00:43:02,569 --> 00:42:59,420
settle the issue

1007
00:43:04,910 --> 00:43:02,579
so is it safe to say that you would hope

1008
00:43:07,130 --> 00:43:04,920
uh the data would be stronger than what

1009
00:43:09,770 --> 00:43:07,140
you have for El muamua because we do see

1010
00:43:13,190 --> 00:43:09,780
Skeptics on that too yeah definitely I

1011
00:43:15,589 --> 00:43:13,200
mean obviously you should be skeptic uh

1012
00:43:17,930 --> 00:43:15,599
but it should be also intriguing to get

1013
00:43:20,150 --> 00:43:17,940
more data that's that's my main point my

1014
00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:20,160
main point is yeah this is

1015
00:43:25,010 --> 00:43:22,560
an outlier this is there are some

1016
00:43:28,370 --> 00:43:25,020
anomalies of a muamua let's find out

1017
00:43:30,589 --> 00:43:28,380
more about objects like it and instead

1018
00:43:32,750 --> 00:43:30,599
of saying it's a nitrogen Iceberg it's a

1019
00:43:36,109 --> 00:43:32,760
hydrogen Iceberg Case Closed forget

1020
00:43:37,970 --> 00:43:36,119
about it it's natural and get upset by

1021
00:43:40,430 --> 00:43:37,980
any discussion on anything else because

1022
00:43:42,230 --> 00:43:40,440
that's not the way we make progress the

1023
00:43:44,030 --> 00:43:42,240
way to make progress is to collect more

1024
00:43:46,609 --> 00:43:44,040
data and the way to collect more data is

1025
00:43:49,490 --> 00:43:46,619
to invest in the search put funds

1026
00:43:52,490 --> 00:43:49,500
towards that search and allow yourself

1027
00:43:55,430 --> 00:43:52,500
to find whatever you find yeah

1028
00:43:58,370 --> 00:43:55,440
yeah I think let me let me ask you this

1029
00:43:59,510 --> 00:43:58,380
so let's let's go ahead to the Future a

1030
00:44:01,250 --> 00:43:59,520
little bit

1031
00:44:05,410 --> 00:44:01,260
um you have everything set up and and

1032
00:44:08,569 --> 00:44:05,420
you get an image and it says Made in

1033
00:44:11,030 --> 00:44:08,579
some star we've never heard of on on the

1034
00:44:13,550 --> 00:44:11,040
side right there's big red buttons that

1035
00:44:16,849 --> 00:44:13,560
you could press and everything and so

1036
00:44:20,150 --> 00:44:16,859
you see this what's your next step how

1037
00:44:22,190 --> 00:44:20,160
do you inform uh the public

1038
00:44:24,589 --> 00:44:22,200
um you know where does that come as far

1039
00:44:27,430 --> 00:44:24,599
as uh your goals after you find that uh

1040
00:44:32,270 --> 00:44:27,440
that object so first of all I should say

1041
00:44:34,130 --> 00:44:32,280
that would be the most important

1042
00:44:37,250 --> 00:44:34,140
um event in my life

1043
00:44:40,550 --> 00:44:37,260
uh because it's not so much I don't care

1044
00:44:42,890 --> 00:44:40,560
uh you know what other people say what

1045
00:44:44,930 --> 00:44:42,900
other people think that's not really the

1046
00:44:47,270 --> 00:44:44,940
issue I want to figure out which reality

1047
00:44:49,550 --> 00:44:47,280
we live in okay that's the fundamental

1048
00:44:51,770 --> 00:44:49,560
thing uh and eventually people will come

1049
00:44:53,630 --> 00:44:51,780
around because if that's the reality we

1050
00:44:55,130 --> 00:44:53,640
live in eventually you know even if it

1051
00:44:57,410 --> 00:44:55,140
takes a hundred years a thousand years

1052
00:44:59,210 --> 00:44:57,420
uh you know in the case of Galileo it

1053
00:45:00,950 --> 00:44:59,220
took hundreds of years for people to

1054
00:45:02,930 --> 00:45:00,960
come around and of course the Vatican

1055
00:45:05,990 --> 00:45:02,940
declared that he was right and so forth

1056
00:45:08,270 --> 00:45:06,000
it doesn't really matter what matters to

1057
00:45:10,430 --> 00:45:08,280
me the most is what is the reality we

1058
00:45:13,550 --> 00:45:10,440
live in do we have probes from other

1059
00:45:15,410 --> 00:45:13,560
civilizations near us let's check our

1060
00:45:17,410 --> 00:45:15,420
backyard and figure it out rather than

1061
00:45:21,349 --> 00:45:17,420
argue about it and ridicule the subject

1062
00:45:23,930 --> 00:45:21,359
and so first of all you know I would

1063
00:45:26,390 --> 00:45:23,940
feel that you know at last I know

1064
00:45:28,370 --> 00:45:26,400
something new I was driven as Society

1065
00:45:30,410 --> 00:45:28,380
It's Always by real you know trying to

1066
00:45:32,750 --> 00:45:30,420
find something that nobody else

1067
00:45:34,849 --> 00:45:32,760
recognized as of yet that was the

1068
00:45:37,030 --> 00:45:34,859
driving force because you know the

1069
00:45:40,010 --> 00:45:37,040
purpose of science is to discover

1070
00:45:42,589 --> 00:45:40,020
new things about the reality we live in

1071
00:45:44,210 --> 00:45:42,599
and you know if you just keep digesting

1072
00:45:47,750 --> 00:45:44,220
the same knowledge we already have

1073
00:45:52,130 --> 00:45:47,760
that's not thrilling it's um you know

1074
00:45:55,370 --> 00:45:52,140
it's like a a bureaucrat the handling

1075
00:45:59,150 --> 00:45:55,380
paper you know uh why you know so you're

1076
00:46:01,430 --> 00:45:59,160
not advancing a Humanity if you're just

1077
00:46:03,730 --> 00:46:01,440
digesting things that we already know

1078
00:46:07,370 --> 00:46:03,740
but that's pretty much the approach of

1079
00:46:10,370 --> 00:46:07,380
experts quote unquote which are gaining

1080
00:46:12,650 --> 00:46:10,380
their self-esteem out of past knowledge

1081
00:46:14,750 --> 00:46:12,660
so the past knowledge is celebrated

1082
00:46:17,390 --> 00:46:14,760
because then they can pretend that they

1083
00:46:19,430 --> 00:46:17,400
can explain everything using this past

1084
00:46:21,950 --> 00:46:19,440
knowledge however my Approach is more

1085
00:46:24,290 --> 00:46:21,960
like a kid I you know everything that is

1086
00:46:27,710 --> 00:46:24,300
already known is of less interest to me

1087
00:46:29,630 --> 00:46:27,720
I want to find something new okay so for

1088
00:46:32,750 --> 00:46:29,640
me that moment would be tremendous

1089
00:46:35,150 --> 00:46:32,760
because here is something new and it's

1090
00:46:37,790 --> 00:46:35,160
really fundamental now now the next

1091
00:46:41,569 --> 00:46:37,800
question is how to convince other people

1092
00:46:43,849 --> 00:46:41,579
and the the question after that is

1093
00:46:47,809 --> 00:46:43,859
indeed what to do about it you know

1094
00:46:50,089 --> 00:46:47,819
because we don't have a protocol uh that

1095
00:46:53,390 --> 00:46:50,099
um about how to respond

1096
00:46:55,069 --> 00:46:53,400
to a visitor in our backyard you have to

1097
00:46:57,349 --> 00:46:55,079
respond immediately because it's not

1098
00:47:00,730 --> 00:46:57,359
like getting a radio signal from a star

1099
00:47:03,230 --> 00:47:00,740
you know thousands of light years away

1100
00:47:05,930 --> 00:47:03,240
there you can take your time you know

1101
00:47:08,150 --> 00:47:05,940
here you have a visitor in your backyard

1102
00:47:12,530 --> 00:47:08,160
you better say something or do something

1103
00:47:15,349 --> 00:47:12,540
or decide how to engage and that is a

1104
00:47:18,349 --> 00:47:15,359
big policy decision and for that

1105
00:47:20,030 --> 00:47:18,359
Humanity has to come together but as you

1106
00:47:22,309 --> 00:47:20,040
indicated the first thing to do is

1107
00:47:24,650 --> 00:47:22,319
communicate it and of course the best

1108
00:47:26,809 --> 00:47:24,660
way to communicate it is showing the

1109
00:47:29,569 --> 00:47:26,819
evidence collecting as much data as

1110
00:47:31,609 --> 00:47:29,579
possible about this showing it through

1111
00:47:33,890 --> 00:47:31,619
the scientific the conventional

1112
00:47:36,410 --> 00:47:33,900
scientific channels but also sharing it

1113
00:47:38,990 --> 00:47:36,420
with the public I don't think hiding it

1114
00:47:40,730 --> 00:47:39,000
would serve any good purpose because if

1115
00:47:44,089 --> 00:47:40,740
that's the reality we live in Imagine

1116
00:47:45,770 --> 00:47:44,099
Galileo saying oh um I know that the

1117
00:47:48,530 --> 00:47:45,780
Earth moves around the Sun but the

1118
00:47:50,450 --> 00:47:48,540
public doesn't know it and it's better

1119
00:47:51,770 --> 00:47:50,460
for the church to believe that the the

1120
00:47:53,170 --> 00:47:51,780
Earth is at the center of the universe

1121
00:47:56,390 --> 00:47:53,180
therefore let's hide that information

1122
00:47:58,309 --> 00:47:56,400
like what will it do if the Earth moves

1123
00:48:00,470 --> 00:47:58,319
around the Sun one way or another

1124
00:48:02,750 --> 00:48:00,480
eventually humans will find out about it

1125
00:48:05,270 --> 00:48:02,760
and if you're hiding the truth it

1126
00:48:07,790 --> 00:48:05,280
doesn't change reality it just maintains

1127
00:48:10,490 --> 00:48:07,800
your ignorance so you know I I hate to

1128
00:48:11,930 --> 00:48:10,500
remain ignorant okay that's really if I

1129
00:48:15,230 --> 00:48:11,940
know something new

1130
00:48:17,569 --> 00:48:15,240
why would I hide it from anyone okay I

1131
00:48:19,790 --> 00:48:17,579
want to discuss it with everyone and and

1132
00:48:21,770 --> 00:48:19,800
the bet the initial step would be to

1133
00:48:24,109 --> 00:48:21,780
communicate the evidence so that other

1134
00:48:26,750 --> 00:48:24,119
people will be convinced through the

1135
00:48:28,809 --> 00:48:26,760
standard scientific method and then we

1136
00:48:31,250 --> 00:48:28,819
have to get to the policy issue and

1137
00:48:33,770 --> 00:48:31,260
perhaps assemble an international

1138
00:48:39,589 --> 00:48:33,780
organization that will decide

1139
00:48:45,710 --> 00:48:42,410
assuming we could right yeah yeah so

1140
00:48:48,349 --> 00:48:45,720
that's the other thing imagine ants on a

1141
00:48:50,569 --> 00:48:48,359
sidewalk the ants can establish a

1142
00:48:53,809 --> 00:48:50,579
committee how to respond to a biker

1143
00:48:56,210 --> 00:48:53,819
riding down the sidewalk but the biker

1144
00:48:57,410 --> 00:48:56,220
wouldn't care less about them

1145
00:48:59,030 --> 00:48:57,420
no

1146
00:49:01,730 --> 00:48:59,040
um it's bringing up the scientific

1147
00:49:04,970 --> 00:49:01,740
method and the challenges here

1148
00:49:06,589 --> 00:49:04,980
um I was thinking about i i a talk you

1149
00:49:08,930 --> 00:49:06,599
did recently a discussion that you had

1150
00:49:13,130 --> 00:49:08,940
recently with Eric Weinstein and uh

1151
00:49:14,870 --> 00:49:13,140
Brian Keating and it kind of and an idea

1152
00:49:17,390 --> 00:49:14,880
that kind of passed over at one point

1153
00:49:20,150 --> 00:49:17,400
early on was talking about

1154
00:49:22,370 --> 00:49:20,160
um you know the problems of studying

1155
00:49:24,530 --> 00:49:22,380
something we're not often studying

1156
00:49:27,349 --> 00:49:24,540
something that

1157
00:49:29,030 --> 00:49:27,359
um is surely smarter than us or appears

1158
00:49:30,950 --> 00:49:29,040
to be smarter than us or we don't think

1159
00:49:34,549 --> 00:49:30,960
we do you know

1160
00:49:37,370 --> 00:49:34,559
um and also kind of the idea of

1161
00:49:39,109 --> 00:49:37,380
things like signature management active

1162
00:49:40,670 --> 00:49:39,119
camouflaging techniques and things like

1163
00:49:43,490 --> 00:49:40,680
this and the earlier you're referring to

1164
00:49:45,890 --> 00:49:43,500
dark matter and how you know over 80

1165
00:49:47,450 --> 00:49:45,900
percent of of what's out there we know

1166
00:49:50,450 --> 00:49:47,460
it's there but we can't even figure out

1167
00:49:54,049 --> 00:49:50,460
where the there is right so along those

1168
00:49:56,089 --> 00:49:54,059
lines this is a thoughtful uh question a

1169
00:49:59,150 --> 00:49:56,099
viewer question uh from a gentleman

1170
00:50:02,150 --> 00:49:59,160
who's a psychiatrist uh up in Canada how

1171
00:50:04,490 --> 00:50:02,160
does the scientific method lead us if

1172
00:50:06,849 --> 00:50:04,500
the subject of study is an active

1173
00:50:09,950 --> 00:50:06,859
participant in the results we receive

1174
00:50:12,470 --> 00:50:09,960
I.E the study participant is potentially

1175
00:50:14,589 --> 00:50:12,480
evading our study of it

1176
00:50:18,170 --> 00:50:14,599
yeah that's a very difficult

1177
00:50:20,870 --> 00:50:18,180
question but I'm trying to be as

1178
00:50:22,910 --> 00:50:20,880
practical as possible so the way I

1179
00:50:25,250 --> 00:50:22,920
approach it is to say

1180
00:50:27,829 --> 00:50:25,260
okay suppose you detect objects in the

1181
00:50:30,230 --> 00:50:27,839
sky and the first thing you are trying

1182
00:50:35,030 --> 00:50:30,240
to do is explain them as natural objects

1183
00:50:36,530 --> 00:50:35,040
like birds uh meteors bugs you know

1184
00:50:39,049 --> 00:50:36,540
lightnings

1185
00:50:42,410 --> 00:50:39,059
so and and you figure out that for sure

1186
00:50:45,290 --> 00:50:42,420
that none of the above because you have

1187
00:50:47,390 --> 00:50:45,300
multiple sensors you track that the way

1188
00:50:49,430 --> 00:50:47,400
they move it's definitely none of the

1189
00:50:52,430 --> 00:50:49,440
natural objects you're familiar with

1190
00:50:54,829 --> 00:50:52,440
uh and then you start checking it could

1191
00:50:56,809 --> 00:50:54,839
it be Russia China's human-made vehicle

1192
00:50:59,950 --> 00:50:56,819
and then you realize no there is no way

1193
00:51:03,170 --> 00:50:59,960
that humans can produce such a device

1194
00:51:07,309 --> 00:51:03,180
for for some reason

1195
00:51:10,670 --> 00:51:07,319
um so only then you say okay well it's

1196
00:51:14,930 --> 00:51:10,680
something else I don't know what it is

1197
00:51:17,690 --> 00:51:14,940
so my point is you don't need to do uh

1198
00:51:21,470 --> 00:51:17,700
to understand how it operates what the

1199
00:51:23,630 --> 00:51:21,480
intention is and especially if it's of

1200
00:51:25,910 --> 00:51:23,640
superior intelligence you might not be

1201
00:51:28,130 --> 00:51:25,920
able to figure it out if there is a

1202
00:51:31,569 --> 00:51:28,140
large technological gap between them and

1203
00:51:35,270 --> 00:51:31,579
us just you just need to realize that

1204
00:51:37,910 --> 00:51:35,280
the chance of us meeting uh equipment

1205
00:51:40,549 --> 00:51:37,920
from a civilization which is exactly the

1206
00:51:43,069 --> 00:51:40,559
same technological development stages we

1207
00:51:45,290 --> 00:51:43,079
are is very small because we had our

1208
00:51:47,450 --> 00:51:45,300
Science and Technology only for a

1209
00:51:49,549 --> 00:51:47,460
century and that's one part in 100

1210
00:51:51,069 --> 00:51:49,559
million of the age of the Earth

1211
00:51:53,630 --> 00:51:51,079
so

1212
00:51:55,309 --> 00:51:53,640
most likely there would be either much

1213
00:51:56,930 --> 00:51:55,319
more advanced than we are or much more

1214
00:52:00,230 --> 00:51:56,940
primitive than we are you know the way

1215
00:52:01,849 --> 00:52:00,240
we were for a million or two years if

1216
00:52:04,010 --> 00:52:01,859
they are much more primitive than we are

1217
00:52:07,370 --> 00:52:04,020
the only way to find them is to go to

1218
00:52:10,190 --> 00:52:07,380
the jungles of an exoplanet and that is

1219
00:52:12,349 --> 00:52:10,200
very expensive and very tedious not only

1220
00:52:14,270 --> 00:52:12,359
you need to go to an exoplanet you need

1221
00:52:16,549 --> 00:52:14,280
to land on it start searching the

1222
00:52:18,290 --> 00:52:16,559
jungles and so forth a much better

1223
00:52:21,230 --> 00:52:18,300
approach is to look for those that are

1224
00:52:23,270 --> 00:52:21,240
much more advanced than we are and those

1225
00:52:25,190 --> 00:52:23,280
would appear in our backyard we don't

1226
00:52:27,349 --> 00:52:25,200
need to go anywhere if they send

1227
00:52:29,150 --> 00:52:27,359
equipment to space so all we need to do

1228
00:52:31,670 --> 00:52:29,160
is look through our window and search

1229
00:52:34,309 --> 00:52:31,680
for that equipment and what I'm saying

1230
00:52:37,130 --> 00:52:34,319
is it's likely to be far more advanced

1231
00:52:39,230 --> 00:52:37,140
than we imagined uh just because we

1232
00:52:42,230 --> 00:52:39,240
existed as a technological civilization

1233
00:52:44,270 --> 00:52:42,240
only for a century and it will take us a

1234
00:52:47,109 --> 00:52:44,280
while to figure it out both in terms of

1235
00:52:49,490 --> 00:52:47,119
intent but if I had to guess I would say

1236
00:52:51,290 --> 00:52:49,500
it has artificial intelligence because

1237
00:52:54,349 --> 00:52:51,300
because these systems have to be

1238
00:52:56,770 --> 00:52:54,359
autonomous and biological creatures

1239
00:53:00,109 --> 00:52:56,780
cannot survive the long journey

1240
00:53:02,410 --> 00:53:00,119
and they cannot wait for guidance from

1241
00:53:04,910 --> 00:53:02,420
whoever send them because it takes light

1242
00:53:06,950 --> 00:53:04,920
tens of thousands of years to Traverse

1243
00:53:09,770 --> 00:53:06,960
the Milky Way galaxy so they must be

1244
00:53:13,309 --> 00:53:09,780
autonomous they must be self-learning

1245
00:53:15,710 --> 00:53:13,319
just like artificial intelligence we are

1246
00:53:19,609 --> 00:53:15,720
starting to develop now that will drive

1247
00:53:22,609 --> 00:53:19,619
cars that we operate on its own and

1248
00:53:25,670 --> 00:53:22,619
um so if I had to guess I would say it's

1249
00:53:28,490 --> 00:53:25,680
a piece of equipment and it follows some

1250
00:53:31,309 --> 00:53:28,500
blueprint and it could be learning from

1251
00:53:33,430 --> 00:53:31,319
experience and it could be equipped with

1252
00:53:36,410 --> 00:53:33,440
a 3D printer in case it was

1253
00:53:39,790 --> 00:53:36,420
self-replicating you know the way

1254
00:53:42,049 --> 00:53:39,800
um envisioned by for Neumann back in

1255
00:53:43,730 --> 00:53:42,059
1940s I'm glad you brought that up what

1256
00:53:46,130 --> 00:53:43,740
do you think of that idea

1257
00:53:49,670 --> 00:53:46,140
well for Neumann headed as a very

1258
00:53:52,849 --> 00:53:49,680
abstract idea but then Freeman Dyson

1259
00:53:56,630 --> 00:53:52,859
um uh about the 30 years later three

1260
00:53:59,809 --> 00:53:56,640
decades later Freeman Dyson was faculty

1261
00:54:01,069 --> 00:53:59,819
at the same place as for Neumann was the

1262
00:54:03,650 --> 00:54:01,079
institute for advanced study at

1263
00:54:07,370 --> 00:54:03,660
Princeton where I was a postdoc uh and

1264
00:54:10,910 --> 00:54:07,380
uh Freeman invented this idea of Astro

1265
00:54:13,250 --> 00:54:10,920
chicken that lays eggs in space and the

1266
00:54:15,170 --> 00:54:13,260
eggs hatch and cheese come out of them

1267
00:54:17,450 --> 00:54:15,180
and so

1268
00:54:19,010 --> 00:54:17,460
um you know and he was thinking about it

1269
00:54:21,710 --> 00:54:19,020
in the solar system as a way of

1270
00:54:25,430 --> 00:54:21,720
exploring the solar system and

1271
00:54:28,430 --> 00:54:25,440
um but I do think that this is a very

1272
00:54:31,370 --> 00:54:28,440
good idea in general if you want to fill

1273
00:54:33,170 --> 00:54:31,380
up the Galaxy with probes to allow them

1274
00:54:35,390 --> 00:54:33,180
to replicate because that's what we

1275
00:54:37,250 --> 00:54:35,400
learned from nature nature does it you

1276
00:54:40,849 --> 00:54:37,260
know in fact for Neumann came with the

1277
00:54:44,109 --> 00:54:40,859
idea a couple of years before the double

1278
00:54:45,730 --> 00:54:44,119
helix structure of DNA was discovered

1279
00:54:49,190 --> 00:54:45,740
and

1280
00:54:51,650 --> 00:54:49,200
biology actually follows his idea you

1281
00:54:53,569 --> 00:54:51,660
have these machines that replicate

1282
00:54:56,390 --> 00:54:53,579
themselves and they have mutations so

1283
00:55:00,890 --> 00:54:56,400
they can evolve to a better uh system

1284
00:55:04,250 --> 00:55:00,900
over time uh so the copying device is

1285
00:55:07,990 --> 00:55:04,260
remains fixed but the information gets

1286
00:55:10,970 --> 00:55:08,000
updated and and that's what biology

1287
00:55:15,349 --> 00:55:10,980
tells us in terms of cells replicating

1288
00:55:16,970 --> 00:55:15,359
themselves through DNA and then when for

1289
00:55:18,770 --> 00:55:16,980
Neumann came up with the idea of

1290
00:55:20,390 --> 00:55:18,780
self-replicating machines he was not

1291
00:55:23,030 --> 00:55:20,400
aware of the DNA structure so that's

1292
00:55:25,730 --> 00:55:23,040
quite amazing he was a brilliant guy and

1293
00:55:28,870 --> 00:55:25,740
what I'm saying is if biology is using

1294
00:55:31,390 --> 00:55:28,880
it why wouldn't technological

1295
00:55:34,010 --> 00:55:31,400
civilizations like ours use it in space

1296
00:55:35,990 --> 00:55:34,020
and then first the reason to use

1297
00:55:40,370 --> 00:55:36,000
technology in space is because biology

1298
00:55:43,970 --> 00:55:40,380
was by natural selection uh you know

1299
00:55:45,530 --> 00:55:43,980
designed to survive on Earth uh that's

1300
00:55:48,410 --> 00:55:45,540
uh you know that was the selection

1301
00:55:49,730 --> 00:55:48,420
process if you put humans in space they

1302
00:55:52,069 --> 00:55:49,740
wouldn't survive for more than a few

1303
00:55:54,710 --> 00:55:52,079
years unprotected it's quite a harsh

1304
00:55:58,789 --> 00:55:54,720
environment uh because of the energetic

1305
00:56:00,589 --> 00:55:58,799
particles and so forth so the point is

1306
00:56:02,750 --> 00:56:00,599
that you can send equipment that

1307
00:56:04,670 --> 00:56:02,760
survives in space for very long times

1308
00:56:07,190 --> 00:56:04,680
and that is equipped with artificial

1309
00:56:09,770 --> 00:56:07,200
intelligence and that can replicate

1310
00:56:12,170 --> 00:56:09,780
itself I think that that would be the

1311
00:56:13,789 --> 00:56:12,180
way to go and perhaps the systems that

1312
00:56:16,309 --> 00:56:13,799
will visit us are the ones that were

1313
00:56:17,870 --> 00:56:16,319
replicated many times over and they are

1314
00:56:19,910 --> 00:56:17,880
not the same as the ones that were sent

1315
00:56:22,730 --> 00:56:19,920
because they went through mutations they

1316
00:56:24,710 --> 00:56:22,740
adapted to the circumstances around them

1317
00:56:26,470 --> 00:56:24,720
and it's possible that these

1318
00:56:28,789 --> 00:56:26,480
unidentified objects that the government

1319
00:56:31,490 --> 00:56:28,799
talks about are you know

1320
00:56:34,370 --> 00:56:31,500
self-replicating machines and they use

1321
00:56:37,190 --> 00:56:34,380
the raw materials that they find to

1322
00:56:39,770 --> 00:56:37,200
produce more copies it's um that would

1323
00:56:42,170 --> 00:56:39,780
make such systems the most abundant

1324
00:56:44,450 --> 00:56:42,180
because their population can grow

1325
00:56:46,970 --> 00:56:44,460
exponentially very quickly and

1326
00:56:49,549 --> 00:56:46,980
um you know to move across the Milky Way

1327
00:56:52,430 --> 00:56:49,559
galaxy with chemical Rockets takes about

1328
00:56:55,370 --> 00:56:52,440
half a billion years just billionaires

1329
00:56:57,349 --> 00:56:55,380
so you can imagine a civilization that

1330
00:56:59,390 --> 00:56:57,359
sends such things a billion years ago

1331
00:57:02,150 --> 00:56:59,400
there was another half billionaires for

1332
00:57:04,990 --> 00:57:02,160
those instruments to replicate

1333
00:57:08,390 --> 00:57:05,000
themselves and populate everything and

1334
00:57:11,809 --> 00:57:08,400
by the way if we ever decide to do that

1335
00:57:15,109 --> 00:57:11,819
uh the number of stars in the Milky Way

1336
00:57:18,170 --> 00:57:15,119
galaxy is several hundreds of Billion

1337
00:57:22,490 --> 00:57:18,180
Stars the number of people that ever

1338
00:57:25,970 --> 00:57:22,500
lived on earth is a 117 billion right

1339
00:57:28,069 --> 00:57:25,980
now other 8 billion people living but if

1340
00:57:31,549 --> 00:57:28,079
you in if you sum over history there

1341
00:57:34,970 --> 00:57:31,559
were 117 billion people that were ever

1342
00:57:36,710 --> 00:57:34,980
alive on Earth okay and there so that

1343
00:57:38,770 --> 00:57:36,720
there is more than one star per person

1344
00:57:42,530 --> 00:57:38,780
available

1345
00:57:46,069 --> 00:57:42,540
the thing is you can imagine each person

1346
00:57:49,730 --> 00:57:46,079
is being assigned the star okay that

1347
00:57:52,010 --> 00:57:49,740
sounds so lonely and well it's a Wish

1348
00:57:54,650 --> 00:57:52,020
Upon a Star you know

1349
00:57:56,390 --> 00:57:54,660
um Your Dreams May Come True because you

1350
00:57:58,670 --> 00:57:56,400
know at the end we live for a short time

1351
00:58:02,390 --> 00:57:58,680
and we might want some you know an

1352
00:58:06,770 --> 00:58:02,400
avatar a tiny spacecraft sent to to your

1353
00:58:10,849 --> 00:58:06,780
star and that will you know follow your

1354
00:58:13,549 --> 00:58:10,859
wishes uh and then so you can imagine a

1355
00:58:16,069 --> 00:58:13,559
tiny spacecraft being sent by each

1356
00:58:17,450 --> 00:58:16,079
person on Earth towards the star in the

1357
00:58:21,069 --> 00:58:17,460
Milky Way and imagine another

1358
00:58:23,870 --> 00:58:21,079
civilization who did which did that and

1359
00:58:26,809 --> 00:58:23,880
those probes are targeting the habitable

1360
00:58:29,030 --> 00:58:26,819
regions around stars and you know maybe

1361
00:58:33,710 --> 00:58:29,040
there are some around us we just need to

1362
00:58:35,450 --> 00:58:33,720
check yeah beautiful now people often

1363
00:58:38,030 --> 00:58:35,460
say we're running towards the end of our

1364
00:58:39,589 --> 00:58:38,040
time here today thank you so much um for

1365
00:58:42,170 --> 00:58:39,599
joining us today yes you know people

1366
00:58:44,329 --> 00:58:42,180
often say that when you're studying a

1367
00:58:46,849 --> 00:58:44,339
subject as challenging as anomalous

1368
00:58:49,549 --> 00:58:46,859
studies or the field of even just you

1369
00:58:52,430 --> 00:58:49,559
UAP specifically it borderline

1370
00:58:55,069 --> 00:58:52,440
necessitates consideration from almost

1371
00:58:57,589 --> 00:58:55,079
every other academic field

1372
00:59:00,829 --> 00:58:57,599
here we have you in the Galileo project

1373
00:59:02,870 --> 00:59:00,839
representing the harder sciences and um

1374
00:59:04,730 --> 00:59:02,880
of course there have been efforts in the

1375
00:59:07,910 --> 00:59:04,740
past from psychiatrists and

1376
00:59:10,910 --> 00:59:07,920
psychologists or even painters to try to

1377
00:59:13,609 --> 00:59:10,920
try to approach the the subject of

1378
00:59:15,349 --> 00:59:13,619
people that have had encounters or

1379
00:59:17,450 --> 00:59:15,359
people trying to report these things

1380
00:59:19,250 --> 00:59:17,460
there are also admirable efforts

1381
00:59:21,289 --> 00:59:19,260
beginning in the social sciences and

1382
00:59:22,970 --> 00:59:21,299
Humanities like Jeff cripples Archives

1383
00:59:25,609 --> 00:59:22,980
of The Impossible Project at Rice

1384
00:59:27,410 --> 00:59:25,619
University securing records that may be

1385
00:59:29,690 --> 00:59:27,420
of extraordinary historical importance

1386
00:59:33,470 --> 00:59:29,700
Within These Realms and his gym program

1387
00:59:35,150 --> 00:59:33,480
encouraging dialogue between disciplines

1388
00:59:37,190 --> 00:59:35,160
um there have been moments where you may

1389
00:59:39,289 --> 00:59:37,200
have been seen as a little hard on the

1390
00:59:41,569 --> 00:59:39,299
anecdotal aspects for understandable

1391
00:59:43,789 --> 00:59:41,579
reasons of many anomalous cases under

1392
00:59:46,970 --> 00:59:43,799
consideration within the social sciences

1393
00:59:49,549 --> 00:59:46,980
since the Galileo project has begun what

1394
00:59:51,470 --> 00:59:49,559
have you found to be most useful for

1395
00:59:52,670 --> 00:59:51,480
anomalist study within the social

1396
00:59:55,010 --> 00:59:52,680
sciences

1397
00:59:56,329 --> 00:59:55,020
oh I I do believe that the social

1398
00:59:59,630 --> 00:59:56,339
sciences

1399
01:00:03,589 --> 00:59:59,640
and Humanities in general could play a

1400
01:00:06,049 --> 01:00:03,599
very important role in this context you

1401
01:00:08,030 --> 01:00:06,059
know but I do think that we first for

1402
01:00:10,789 --> 01:00:08,040
the evidence side we need to use the

1403
01:00:12,950 --> 01:00:10,799
hard Sciences just to give your

1404
01:00:15,049 --> 01:00:12,960
perspective I was as a young kid I was

1405
01:00:16,970 --> 01:00:15,059
mostly interested in philosophy that's

1406
01:00:18,609 --> 01:00:16,980
what makes me different from a typical

1407
01:00:21,410 --> 01:00:18,619
scientist and

1408
01:00:22,990 --> 01:00:21,420
circumstances led me to become an

1409
01:00:26,109 --> 01:00:23,000
astrophysicist

1410
01:00:31,670 --> 01:00:26,119
and I still have

1411
01:00:33,950 --> 01:00:31,680
a philosophy as my most my passion and I

1412
01:00:36,109 --> 01:00:33,960
do appreciate the significance you know

1413
01:00:37,970 --> 01:00:36,119
of the and the importance of the

1414
01:00:40,970 --> 01:00:37,980
humanities and social sciences in this

1415
01:00:44,150 --> 01:00:40,980
context so in fact that we submitted 10

1416
01:00:46,069 --> 01:00:44,160
papers for publication from the Galileo

1417
01:00:49,789 --> 01:00:46,079
project after the first year and one of

1418
01:00:52,130 --> 01:00:49,799
them is about social implications and

1419
01:00:53,870 --> 01:00:52,140
um we haven't made them public yet until

1420
01:00:55,309 --> 01:00:53,880
they are referred they are review peer

1421
01:00:58,130 --> 01:00:55,319
reviewed that then we will make them

1422
01:01:00,650 --> 01:00:58,140
public but the point of the matter is if

1423
01:01:02,530 --> 01:01:00,660
we do find data that indicates that we

1424
01:01:05,950 --> 01:01:02,540
are not the smartest kid on the Block

1425
01:01:08,809 --> 01:01:05,960
then the next steps will be

1426
01:01:10,549 --> 01:01:08,819
dictated by people in the humanities and

1427
01:01:13,390 --> 01:01:10,559
the social sciences they would lead the

1428
01:01:16,309 --> 01:01:13,400
way so you can think of

1429
01:01:20,569 --> 01:01:16,319
physics instrumentation as just being

1430
01:01:23,030 --> 01:01:20,579
the first step necessary to establish

1431
01:01:26,210 --> 01:01:23,040
the evidence so it's sort of like

1432
01:01:29,030 --> 01:01:26,220
imagine a detective story where you

1433
01:01:31,670 --> 01:01:29,040
first need to collect the evidence from

1434
01:01:34,010 --> 01:01:31,680
the crime scene before you jump into any

1435
01:01:36,289 --> 01:01:34,020
conclusion so there is a person that

1436
01:01:38,750 --> 01:01:36,299
will be a technical person collecting

1437
01:01:40,849 --> 01:01:38,760
that evidence then the implications of

1438
01:01:43,789 --> 01:01:40,859
that evidence and what to do with it you

1439
01:01:46,250 --> 01:01:43,799
know that is the subject of

1440
01:01:48,650 --> 01:01:46,260
um people in other professions you know

1441
01:01:50,990 --> 01:01:48,660
including lawyers including politics

1442
01:01:53,390 --> 01:01:51,000
depending on the crime itself but the

1443
01:01:55,190 --> 01:01:53,400
point of the matter is that all these

1444
01:01:57,710 --> 01:01:55,200
other disciplines will come into play

1445
01:02:00,230 --> 01:01:57,720
but they really rely on the evidence

1446
01:02:02,470 --> 01:02:00,240
being firm because if we jump into

1447
01:02:06,829 --> 01:02:02,480
conclusions before the evidence shows it

1448
01:02:08,390 --> 01:02:06,839
then you know that's risky that's we can

1449
01:02:10,730 --> 01:02:08,400
go in many different directions that are

1450
01:02:12,470 --> 01:02:10,740
not substantiated you see that in

1451
01:02:14,690 --> 01:02:12,480
politics you know people believing in

1452
01:02:17,270 --> 01:02:14,700
things or you see that you know in other

1453
01:02:19,609 --> 01:02:17,280
aspects of philosophy uh you can believe

1454
01:02:23,210 --> 01:02:19,619
in things but in the context of figuring

1455
01:02:27,349 --> 01:02:23,220
out reality you better know the evidence

1456
01:02:29,390 --> 01:02:27,359
that confirms your basic assumptions you

1457
01:02:31,069 --> 01:02:29,400
know like is the Earth moving around the

1458
01:02:33,109 --> 01:02:31,079
Sun or the Sun moving around yeah you

1459
01:02:35,569 --> 01:02:33,119
know that changes your worldview once

1460
01:02:37,970 --> 01:02:35,579
you know that the implication of that

1461
01:02:41,150 --> 01:02:37,980
and what to do about it that's

1462
01:02:44,089 --> 01:02:41,160
completely separate from the hard

1463
01:02:46,430 --> 01:02:44,099
sciences and I really think that it

1464
01:02:48,289 --> 01:02:46,440
would be a huge boost in the importance

1465
01:02:49,510 --> 01:02:48,299
of these other disciplines once we get

1466
01:02:52,970 --> 01:02:49,520
there

1467
01:02:53,930 --> 01:02:52,980
well Dr Loeb I really appreciate your

1468
01:02:55,970 --> 01:02:53,940
time

1469
01:02:57,529 --> 01:02:55,980
um I I know you're a busy man and and

1470
01:02:59,270 --> 01:02:57,539
you took time out of your day to do this

1471
01:03:01,190 --> 01:02:59,280
for us and I always appreciate you

1472
01:03:03,049 --> 01:03:01,200
stopping by I always have such a good

1473
01:03:06,170 --> 01:03:03,059
time talking with you um is there

1474
01:03:07,730 --> 01:03:06,180
anything that you uh may want to say or

1475
01:03:09,770 --> 01:03:07,740
something that we weren't able to touch

1476
01:03:11,390 --> 01:03:09,780
on by chance that you want to

1477
01:03:12,890 --> 01:03:11,400
that you want to mention or leave us

1478
01:03:16,130 --> 01:03:12,900
with

1479
01:03:19,250 --> 01:03:16,140
um just anyone interested in funding the

1480
01:03:21,309 --> 01:03:19,260
this effort uh either the expedition to

1481
01:03:25,250 --> 01:03:21,319
Papua New Guinea or the Galileo project

1482
01:03:27,789 --> 01:03:25,260
uh is welcome to to approach me and via

1483
01:03:30,890 --> 01:03:27,799
email I'll be delighted to discuss it

1484
01:03:32,990 --> 01:03:30,900
and we will not disappoint you uh I hope

1485
01:03:34,609 --> 01:03:33,000
that within a year we'll have some very

1486
01:03:37,730 --> 01:03:34,619
interesting things to say

1487
01:03:39,829 --> 01:03:37,740
great thank you so much Dr Lowe it's

1488
01:03:41,750 --> 01:03:39,839
been an absolute pleasure thank you

1489
01:03:43,069 --> 01:03:41,760
thanks for having me have a great rest

1490
01:03:46,130 --> 01:03:43,079
of the day

1491
01:03:52,849 --> 01:03:49,430
oh golly gosh that was great yeah really

1492
01:03:55,190 --> 01:03:52,859
really enjoyed that it was fantastic and

1493
01:03:56,690 --> 01:03:55,200
I think we're not done with each other

1494
01:03:59,270 --> 01:03:56,700
yet are we

1495
01:04:04,010 --> 01:04:01,370
um not only just right now

1496
01:04:06,589 --> 01:04:04,020
um but we also oh you're gonna make me

1497
01:04:09,289 --> 01:04:06,599
dizzy it's okay you can keep doing it

1498
01:04:13,010 --> 01:04:09,299
um but um yeah uh later this evening

1499
01:04:16,010 --> 01:04:13,020
we've got another episode another

1500
01:04:18,289 --> 01:04:16,020
um piping hot episode of good questions

1501
01:04:20,210 --> 01:04:18,299
by the way I wanted to say you brought

1502
01:04:22,970 --> 01:04:20,220
some really great questions today oh

1503
01:04:24,589 --> 01:04:22,980
thanks fantastic you did too yeah well

1504
01:04:27,230 --> 01:04:24,599
you know I'm gonna shoot from the hip

1505
01:04:28,370 --> 01:04:27,240
kind of guy in your well thought out

1506
01:04:30,289 --> 01:04:28,380
kind of guy

1507
01:04:32,329 --> 01:04:30,299
and you know when I hear some of your

1508
01:04:34,549 --> 01:04:32,339
questions like man I wish I was a more

1509
01:04:40,130 --> 01:04:34,559
well thought out kind of guy well that's

1510
01:04:45,710 --> 01:04:42,529
getting like saxophone player you know

1511
01:04:47,690 --> 01:04:45,720
what I mean and I I yeah I haven't been

1512
01:04:49,910 --> 01:04:47,700
at this as long as you have in terms of

1513
01:04:52,010 --> 01:04:49,920
the public-facing podcasting stuff so I

1514
01:04:54,109 --> 01:04:52,020
have to sit here and kind of like you

1515
01:04:57,490 --> 01:04:54,119
know build and Build The Better

1516
01:05:00,529 --> 01:04:57,500
mousetrap you know kind of stuff

1517
01:05:01,849 --> 01:05:00,539
I have to sit here and methodically look

1518
01:05:03,349 --> 01:05:01,859
through the interviews and go through my

1519
01:05:06,170 --> 01:05:03,359
notes for a few hours but it works out

1520
01:05:07,010 --> 01:05:06,180
it works out in things at the end of the

1521
01:05:10,690 --> 01:05:07,020
day

1522
01:05:13,549 --> 01:05:10,700
um having great conversations and and

1523
01:05:15,589 --> 01:05:13,559
seeing the wonderful people over in the

1524
01:05:18,170 --> 01:05:15,599
chat is a great reward for for what

1525
01:05:20,210 --> 01:05:18,180
we're doing here yeah and everyone was

1526
01:05:22,970 --> 01:05:20,220
fantastic in the chat

1527
01:05:25,069 --> 01:05:22,980
um I really do appreciate that uh as

1528
01:05:27,829 --> 01:05:25,079
always you guys keep the chat uh polite

1529
01:05:30,529 --> 01:05:27,839
and I really respect that about the chat

1530
01:05:34,010 --> 01:05:30,539
one of my favorite things about uh the

1531
01:05:36,890 --> 01:05:34,020
chat is you know people are always

1532
01:05:39,470 --> 01:05:36,900
um afforded you know their their own

1533
01:05:42,349 --> 01:05:39,480
opinion right but but they just kind of

1534
01:05:45,470 --> 01:05:42,359
seem to know when it goes too far into

1535
01:05:47,450 --> 01:05:45,480
the negative aspect you know and that

1536
01:05:51,049 --> 01:05:47,460
negativity is just contagious and nobody

1537
01:05:54,230 --> 01:05:51,059
nobody wants that right so I appreciate

1538
01:05:56,930 --> 01:05:54,240
that about the chat and yeah we do have

1539
01:05:59,630 --> 01:05:56,940
another show at 6 p.m Central Standard

1540
01:06:02,630 --> 01:05:59,640
Time with Dr Michael Masters where we're

1541
01:06:06,829 --> 01:06:05,270
aliens that could be Time Travelers

1542
01:06:10,250 --> 01:06:06,839
we're going to be talking about time

1543
01:06:13,910 --> 01:06:10,260
travel yep you know I mean yep are some

1544
01:06:15,770 --> 01:06:13,920
are some non-human intities are some of

1545
01:06:18,170 --> 01:06:15,780
these anomalies that we see could they

1546
01:06:21,470 --> 01:06:18,180
possibly be Time Travelers he's now

1547
01:06:23,569 --> 01:06:21,480
written two books on the subject uh he's

1548
01:06:26,270 --> 01:06:23,579
he's a brilliant guy I met him in March

1549
01:06:28,010 --> 01:06:26,280
had lunch with him once and uh it was a

1550
01:06:30,109 --> 01:06:28,020
wonderful wonderful outbroken

1551
01:06:32,690 --> 01:06:30,119
conversation that I look forward to us

1552
01:06:34,069 --> 01:06:32,700
having an awesome conversation with them

1553
01:06:35,630 --> 01:06:34,079
this evening I'm sure it's going to be

1554
01:06:37,370 --> 01:06:35,640
great if you're going to bring some more

1555
01:06:39,829 --> 01:06:37,380
well thought out questions I'm going to

1556
01:06:42,470 --> 01:06:39,839
be shooting from the hip and

1557
01:06:43,910 --> 01:06:42,480
but see it I read his book and I watched

1558
01:06:45,190 --> 01:06:43,920
his interviews but then I don't plan

1559
01:06:47,270 --> 01:06:45,200
anything

1560
01:06:49,670 --> 01:06:47,280
well that's that's the way it works man

1561
01:06:51,230 --> 01:06:49,680
yeah like you made a Hendrix analogy

1562
01:06:52,970 --> 01:06:51,240
before and it's not the first time that

1563
01:06:55,789 --> 01:06:52,980
I've said like you're kind of like the

1564
01:06:58,190 --> 01:06:55,799
Guided by Voices of uh anomalous

1565
01:07:00,349 --> 01:06:58,200
podcasting you just kind of open your

1566
01:07:03,670 --> 01:07:00,359
mouth and a song comes out that's I mean

1567
01:07:09,770 --> 01:07:03,680
it really it really is what happened

1568
01:07:13,010 --> 01:07:09,780
well yeah I equally respect and love you

1569
01:07:15,230 --> 01:07:13,020
well all right we should probably get a

1570
01:07:17,630 --> 01:07:15,240
room uh while we're at it but uh sure

1571
01:07:19,309 --> 01:07:17,640
fair enough dude it's wonderful to see

1572
01:07:21,049 --> 01:07:19,319
you it's wonderful to see everybody over

1573
01:07:24,109 --> 01:07:21,059
here and I hope that we'll see some of

1574
01:07:26,630 --> 01:07:24,119
you uh later this evening yep peace out

1575
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:26,640
y'all all right love you buddy love you

1576
01:07:43,290 --> 01:07:41,930
[Music]